Posted on 06/23/2007 1:28:02 PM PDT by Extremely Extreme Extremist
(AP) SALT LAKE CITY -- Mitt Romney said Saturday that criticism of his Mormon religion by rival GOP presidential campaigns is happening too frequently.
“Clearly, any derogatory comments about anyone’s faith—those comments are troubling. The fact they keep on coming up is even more troubling,” Romney said during a fundraising trip in the home state of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
The Mormon church is one of the fastest-growing religions and claims about 12.5 million members worldwide. But many evangelical Christians in crucial primary states such as Iowa and South Carolina consider the faith a cult.
Romney’s remarks follow an apology from GOP rival John McCain’s campaign for comments about the Mormon church allegedly made this year by a volunteer.
Also recently, Republican presidential hopeful, Sen. Sam Brownback of Kansas, issued a similar apology for a campaign worker’s e-mail to Iowa Republican leaders that was an apparent attempt to draw unfavorable scrutiny of Romney’s religion. Former New York City mayor Rudy Giuliani apologized after the New York Sun noted that a campaign aide had forwarded to a blogger a story about unofficial Mormon lore. Legend has it that a Mormon would save the Constitution, the story said. The campaign aide passed the story along with a note: “Thought you’d find this interesting.”
Romney said in a large presidential race there always will be some volunteers or workers who cannot be controlled. But he said the difference between derogatory comments that originated from the McCain campaign and others is that the Arizona senator has not personally apologized to him.
“In the case of Senator Brownback and Mayor Giuliani ... they called immediately. They each spoke with me personally. I don’t have any issue with that at all,” Romney said.
He said McCain “can do whatever he feels is the right thing. There’s no need for me to suggest how people respond to things that go on in the campaign.”
Tucker Bounds, a McCain campaign spokesman, said the McCain campaign has already apologized.
“It’s a very sincere apology. There is absolutely no place for those type of comments in our campaign,” he said.
Romney, a former governor of Massachusetts, said he had not spoken with McCain since the last presidential debate, on June 5.
Romney used a fundraiser hosted by Utah Jazz owner Larry Miller to criticize the McCain-Feingold campaign finance law. It banned unregulated, unlimited contributions from corporations, unions and wealthy individuals to national political parties and federal candidates.
“The bill ought to be repealed,” he said. “It’s been the wrong course for American campaigns.”
Romney said he favors unlimited donations as long as they are immediately disclosed on the Internet.
Romney was attending fundraisers in Salt Lake City and in Logan on Saturday.
~”Tantiboh, my FRiend, you have stated flatly that Mormonism does not teach there are multiple Gods...”~
Incorrect. I have stated that we do not worship multiple Gods, unless, of course, you want to interpret the Godhead as multiple Gods. I don’t.
~”Satan loves it when a religious person wants to engage in ‘trials to prove himself worthy’ because Satan can always win in that game as he has proven throughout human history.”~
Good, Mormons are generally safe. I’ll be the first to tell you I’m not worthy of salvation, unless I have the power of Grace behind me. We do believe, though, that Grace is contingent on an honest effort to obey the Lord. If this is where we part ways, then so be it.
For the next four paragraphs, we shall disagree. Your concern is noted; if you’re right, then you may now rest assured that your duty is done. If you continue to feel unsettled, then I suppose you’ll try again another day.
Personally, I’m feeling pretty confident in my beliefs. I see no need to try to tear down your faith to build my own up. This is evidently not your motivation, of course, as you have expressed yourself in such kind, compassionate terms.
~”It appears you Mormonism Apologists want those who oppose the cult you hold dear to shut up and stop hindering the advance of your cultish beliefs.”~
On the contrary. I would appreciate a little more consistent honesty and compassion in these discussions; but if you and those who agree with you knew just how much harm you are doing to your own cause, you would desist immediately. I’ve resolved three (going on four) personal dilemmas of faith in the last few months, thanks to these conversations. Every time you give me reason to testify as to what I know to be true, I feel the Spirit burn within me in confirmation; and my own faith is that much stronger. It has been a fascinating experience to come to understand better the mind of an anti-Mormon; and I consider myself better off for it. It’s not a vocation suitable for the faint of heart or thin of skin, but I’ve certainly learned a great deal. For that, you have my thanks.
~”We will not do that and we will continue to cite the LDS sources from which the exposure of your cult may be accomplished.”~
I welcome that. It’s the dubious sources that I deride. You, individually, MHG, do quite well in this category. You may or may not read and believe the dubious sources; but at the very least you don’t generally fling them at us like so much manure. Others of our detractors have much to learn from you.
~”And if you mistakenly believe that somehow your exposing these heresies now while offering a twisted explanation will give Mitt Romney future immunity from the DNC exposing these cultish heresies at just the right time to destroy Romney’s candidacy...”~
I thought I had made that clear? I couldn’t give a rat’s tail about Romney’s candidacy, at least not yet. Of course, the schadenfreude aspect is taking me inexorably in that direction.
~”...you will not get Mitt Romney elected because you cannot inoculate the American people to ignore the heresies of Mormonism...”~
Since we’re on the topic, I still maintain that said inoculation is unnecessary. People are generally either more enlightened or more ignorant on these issues than you seem to want to think. Romney may well be defeated; but religion will -at most- play no more than a very small role in this.
We’ve disagreed on this point for quite some time, of course; and only time will tell which of us is right.
~”...especially given the convoluted deceptions it has become apparent you must employ to try and squelch opposition.”~
You know very well, MHG, that I do my level best to be sensible, reasonable, and rational in these discussions. If I’m wrong I admit it. I have many weaknesses, but dishonesty and lack of critical thinking skills are not among them. I do think that some of my fellow Mormons are rather light in analysis and logic; but, then, so is an equal proportion of our detractors. “Mormonism is a dangerous cult!” and “No Mormon can have the good sense to be POTUS!” are not particularly sterling examples of intelligent argument.
CC, I’m afraid you are confusing two different things. The quotes you cite are accurate, but they have nothing to do with the so-called “White Horse Prophecy.” Please read up a little more.
~”Hey why don’t you be honest and post all the “ordinances” that are required for you to “enter the Kingom of God.””~
Just two: baptism and the laying on of hands.
Care to refine the question?
Anybody tired of me yet?
;)
Romans 3:28
For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law. (Jewish Law) - St. Paul (The Jerk)
The highest level of the Celestial Kingdom. What ordinances must you perform to enter there? Not as a servant. mind you.
What must you do to be "worthy."
You haven't even begun to give answers yet. But I must admit, you are very practiced at deflecting the questions.
Are you Mitt Romney in disquise? :-)
You could wish! If Tantiboh were Mitt, well, America would definitely be the winner. But you know Mitt is a very intelligent man too, right?
Would you care to post the "other" prophecy of Joseph Smith that these apostles were referring to?
1928 Melvin J. Ballard, Conference Report, October 1928, p. 108
The Prophet Joseph told us that he saw the day when even the Constitution of the United States would be torn and hang as by a thread.
..... 1942 Harold B. Lee, Conference Report, April 1942, p. 87
...when we recall the prophecy of Joseph Smith who declared that “the time would come when ( the destiny and ) the Constitution of these United States would hang as it were by a thread,....I want to ask you to consider the meaning of that prophecy....
Oh yes! Very practiced in the art of obsfucation, and deflection. Who knows, he may win. If so, then I dare say America will get the leader it deserves.....God help us!
When you are willing to drop the narrow and parochial view of the LDS, then we may be able to have a dialog. Until then, your indignation means very little.
“The highest level of the Celestial Kingdom.”
Thanks for the clarification. Add to those receiving the Endowment and Eternal Marriage (both temple ordinances), as well as receiving the Priesthood for men.
I make it a practice, CC, to answer serious questions as best I can. With respect, I haven’t seen any such questions from you recently. Everything I’ve lately seen you post in this regard is rehash from topics that have been covered extensively in previous threads.
I don’t see it as fruitful to engage the people who are not looking for answers. You have made your decisions, and there’s nothing I will be able to do or say to change your mind. I’m satisfied with that.
I’m flattered.
Regardless of his politics or religion, I think there’s no serious doubt that Romney is a good, decent, caring, hard-working, intelligent man.
Sure. As I recall, Joseph Smith reportedly said similar things on multiple occasions; but here is the transcript of one such:
http://www.boap.org/LDS/Parallel/1840/19Jul40.html
Look at the section titled “Nauvoo to be scattered...”
I posted the lie already. That’s when you asked for the citation. I gave you the citation and the link and now you ask for the lie. You are playing the fool — and it seems to come naturally. Joseph Smith lied, in a sermon, and said he was not a polygamist when he was. It is in the History of the Church, Volume 6, I gave you the link. He also said that he was greater than Jesus Christ in the same sermon. Since this makes him proven liar, as well as blasphemous, it should make you stop and wonder if you are in a cult.
You say “I consider myself a monotheist.” Polytheism is belief in or worship of more than one god — and you believe there is more than one god. I had heard that Mormons hide what they believe and try to trick people about their church, but until I ran across you I had never actually seen it. Shame on you. You need to remember who the father of lies is.
~”The Mormon Church has taken the incredibly narrow and parochial view that it is the one true church and that all other christian creeds and denominations are corrupt.”~
This is true. We make the bold claim that we are God’s one true Church, with His genuine Priesthood authority and Christ Himself at the helm; but we do so in the spirit of gratitude and invitation. Nevertheless, if you do not wish to listen, we smile and go on our way; there are plenty who do.
~”The Mormon Church has persecuted Protestants and Catholics relentlessly for over 150 years.”~
How so? If by “persecution” you mean saying, “You’re wrong,” then you may want to head out to the bookstore for a new dictionary.
I don’t know whether this statement is born of a bad experience on your part, a desire to espouse revisionist history, or simple ignorance; but in any case, it is patently incorrect.
~”When you are willing to drop the narrow and parochial view of the LDS, then we may be able to have a dialog.”~
I’m fine without the dialog, thanks, as there are many others to occupy my time; the problem is, the goalposts of people who agree with you are far further back than a simple dropping of a “parochial view.” In my experience, nothing short of a total renunciation of the unique tenants of my faith would satisfy such people; until then, I will be, in their view, a cultist and heretic. And you know what? I’m OK with that. I’m in very good company. I understand that one Man was nailed to a cross for such heresies.
~”Until then, your indignation means very little.”~
I believe that my indignation, whether it means much or little in your eyes, is justified. You telling me I, being a Mormon, am therefore not Christian is like me telling you that you don’t love your mother.
Who am I to make such a judgment of you?
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