Posted on 06/23/2007 1:28:02 PM PDT by Extremely Extreme Extremist
(AP) SALT LAKE CITY -- Mitt Romney said Saturday that criticism of his Mormon religion by rival GOP presidential campaigns is happening too frequently.
“Clearly, any derogatory comments about anyone’s faith—those comments are troubling. The fact they keep on coming up is even more troubling,” Romney said during a fundraising trip in the home state of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
The Mormon church is one of the fastest-growing religions and claims about 12.5 million members worldwide. But many evangelical Christians in crucial primary states such as Iowa and South Carolina consider the faith a cult.
Romney’s remarks follow an apology from GOP rival John McCain’s campaign for comments about the Mormon church allegedly made this year by a volunteer.
Also recently, Republican presidential hopeful, Sen. Sam Brownback of Kansas, issued a similar apology for a campaign worker’s e-mail to Iowa Republican leaders that was an apparent attempt to draw unfavorable scrutiny of Romney’s religion. Former New York City mayor Rudy Giuliani apologized after the New York Sun noted that a campaign aide had forwarded to a blogger a story about unofficial Mormon lore. Legend has it that a Mormon would save the Constitution, the story said. The campaign aide passed the story along with a note: “Thought you’d find this interesting.”
Romney said in a large presidential race there always will be some volunteers or workers who cannot be controlled. But he said the difference between derogatory comments that originated from the McCain campaign and others is that the Arizona senator has not personally apologized to him.
“In the case of Senator Brownback and Mayor Giuliani ... they called immediately. They each spoke with me personally. I don’t have any issue with that at all,” Romney said.
He said McCain “can do whatever he feels is the right thing. There’s no need for me to suggest how people respond to things that go on in the campaign.”
Tucker Bounds, a McCain campaign spokesman, said the McCain campaign has already apologized.
“It’s a very sincere apology. There is absolutely no place for those type of comments in our campaign,” he said.
Romney, a former governor of Massachusetts, said he had not spoken with McCain since the last presidential debate, on June 5.
Romney used a fundraiser hosted by Utah Jazz owner Larry Miller to criticize the McCain-Feingold campaign finance law. It banned unregulated, unlimited contributions from corporations, unions and wealthy individuals to national political parties and federal candidates.
“The bill ought to be repealed,” he said. “It’s been the wrong course for American campaigns.”
Romney said he favors unlimited donations as long as they are immediately disclosed on the Internet.
Romney was attending fundraisers in Salt Lake City and in Logan on Saturday.
Christ is the judge. KJV Acts 10:42 And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.
NIV Acts 10:42He commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that he is the one whom God appointed as judge of the living and the dead.
This is another point where Mormon belief contradicts the word of God.
Here's tantiboh's query, for reference:
If I’m reading your comments correctly, all a person needs to be saved is the knowledge of the true doctrine. No action is required on their part but to receive this knowledge and accept it. They are not required to -do- anything else. ... Is this an accurate description?
John 3:16
The instant you believe, *Bingo!*, you're in.
The other part of your question is whether or not it's possible to fall from this state of grace. That question requires a boxing ring and syndicated talking heads.
“If I’m reading your comments correctly, all a person needs to be saved is the knowledge of the true doctrine. No action is required on their part but to receive this knowledge and accept it. They are not required to -do- anything else.
Is this an accurate description?”
ABSOLUTELY NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Have you truly not read what I’ve posted - as well as
others?
Knowledge does not save anyone. “Making a profession”
does not save anyone. Placing believing faith in the
truth of Christ’s work on the cross on your behalf -
quitting relying on your own efforts and “good works” -
and resting in His completed work for your eternal
salvation, is what gives eternal life.
The Bible uses the word believe, which in NT Greek
means to entrust yourself to fully.
This is NOT just intellectual acceptance of a concept
or idea, as you describe above.
Anything that happens after that is an outflow of
Christ’s life through you - and if you have placed
your faith in Him, it will flow.
best,
ampu
~”Placing believing faith in the
truth of Christ’s work on the cross on your behalf -
quitting relying on your own efforts and “good works” -
and resting in His completed work for your eternal
salvation, is what gives eternal life.”~
OK, let me rephrase. All a person needs to be saved is faith in the truth of Christ’s work on the cross in their behalf, etc. They are not required to -do- anything else.
Is -this- an accurate description?
~”Have you truly not read what I’ve posted - as well as
others?”~
Of course I have, but it hasn’t been clear to me. That’s why I’m asking the questions.
I’m not playing a gotcha game here. I’m interested in your perspective on just what -exactly- brings salvation.
John 3:16. Faith in Christ. Period.
Thank you, Enosh. That’s very interesting to me.
I’m also interested to see if this is AMPU’s interpretation.
I appreciate your post & you may not know anyone who hates mormons, however, if you have read some of the posts here at the FR & still believe that there are those who don’t hate mormons, you’re living in a dream world. Also, you’ll notice that it was a question I posed not a statement. The vitriol is palpable & real my friend.
What do you think about the absolutely unfounded statements about Joseph Smith being an adulterer amongst many, many other things. Do those help the atmosphere around the FR? Common AMPU, let’s be intellectually honest.
BTW, I really appreciate what you did for your friend. A veritable act of kindness & Christianity.
So pointing out the life and writings and behaviors of Joseph Smith is equated with hating Mormons. Would that mean that doing the same with the pedophile, Mohammed, is the same as hating Moslems? What’s next, chopping off my head so I won’t oppose your false prophet, adulterous liar who tried to rewrite the Bible to insert false prophecies of himself ‘in these latter days’?
BTW, welcome to FR, ‘noobie’.
You’ll notice that I used the word unfounded in that post. I’ll now use the word WOW for this one.
tant,
some people teach that repentance (turning from
our sins or old way of life) is necessary as a
step. I believe for most, by the time they
turn to Christ in faith, they are automatically
turning from their old life.
Is there anything else required beyond finding
believing rest in what Christ has done for us?
No. He did everything that was required to pay
for all our sins - past, present, future -
through His death on our behalf. Those were our
sins He died for.
He has secured eternal life in the presence of
God on our behalf entirely through His completed
work. There is nothing a human could add to
what He has accomplished to all who receive the
good news.
In short, the answer is no. There is nothing a
person even could do to add to what Christ has
done. Anything we could try is, in comparison,
filthy rags. No good works. No good deeds. No
rituals. Not baptism, which we’ve discussed
previously on this thread. Those should flow
from our new life in Christ, but they do not
come before we have the life of Christ inside
ourselves through new birth.
For some people, this occurs at a point in
time - and I would guess for most. For some,
they realize the placing of faith happened
earlier and they are aware they are trusting
fully in the Savior, apart from anything on
their own.
I hope I have communicated clearly the answer
you asked for.
best,
ampu
Thank you, I believe I understand.
Best regards.
reno (911?)
There is evidence that Joseph Smith married other’s
wives. I don’t know anything about how credible
that is. If it were true, that would be adultery.
They apparently believe it is true, but they can
speak for themselves.
There is enough to question young Smith about. I
don’t worry about the adultery issue.
best,
ampu
Now if only the fish would cooperate...
This has already been discussed on this forum & found to be a rather specious argument. I’m sure there are some here that believe that if they keep saying the same thing over & over again that somehow it will become true no matter how falacious it may be. I appreciate your not joining the fray.
Tant,
as a personal aside...
I grew up in a home that generally went to church
twice a year - Easter and Christmas.
When I was 11 or 12, I told my Dad I didn’t want
to go to church anymore because I didn’t know
anyone for whom it made a difference in their life.
Amazingly, he said I didn’t have to go.
I had the idea that God had a giant scale in heaven
on which He would weigh my bad deeds versus my good
deeds. Hopefully, I’d squeak through and get into
heaven.
So I grew up hearing about Christ, but never about
salvation. Never about knowing Him personally.
It wasn’t until college, my roommate shared with
me how I could have eternal life.
How great it was - what a relief - to hear
how I could know I would have eternal life through
what Christ did on my behalf. I stewed over it for
a while and one night I decided I wanted to know
God and I wanted to have eternal life. I talked to
God, telling Him exactly that, confessing my own
sin and thanking Him for His gift of forgiveness
and eternal life.
Later, I served as a missionary for a number of
years. After that, I went to seminary - partially
because I had talked to mormons who made certain
claims about John 1. I decided I wanted to absolutely
know what the Bible said.
When I left for seminary, I decided I was starting
from scratch. I would enter believing the Bible
was the Word of God and Jesus Christ was my Savior.
Everything else was “up for grabs” and would have
to come from scripture, regardless of what I’d been
taught up until that point. It was a good way to go,
unencumbered by any other idea to restrict what
was true.
I picked the seminary largely because it was
the only seminary that required its students to
study every single book of the Bible, verse by
verse - not just survey overview courses. Imagine,
investing time in a seminary that didn’t allow you
to study through every single book in the Bible???
And those were rich and rewarding years. I got that
John 1 passage handled too, in Greek class. And I
found my bride there in the Alumni office :-)
Have a good night,
ampu
I’m glad you’ve found peace for yourself.
Your story of how you came to know Christ is touching; I particularly liked this statement:
~”How great it was - what a relief - to hear
how I could know I would have eternal life through
what Christ did on my behalf. I stewed over it for
a while and one night I decided I wanted to know
God and I wanted to have eternal life. I talked to
God, telling Him exactly that, confessing my own
sin and thanking Him for His gift of forgiveness
and eternal life.”~
I wish there were a way I could convince you just how nearly identical our beliefs are in these regards. Your description is very close to the way I have come to know Jesus.
We are unprofitable servants; the scales you cite will always tip against us. I am eternally grateful for Christ, and for what He has done for me. I would fall at His feet and bathe them with my tears if I could; for the Gift is precious indeed.
We have Christ in common; all else is of little importance, as far as I can see.
My FRiend, you have found the reason why there are so many denominations and sects in Christianity. The doctrines of men are mere minor distractions when considered with the ONLY important point, Christ IS The Savior. [Many are called but few are chosen; faithful is He that calleth you for He will also do it; of the many called, so few will let Him do it.]
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