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To: calcowgirl
So now in the name of conservatism, you are criticizing cleaning up a lawless city, because you believe New Yorkers' civil rights were violated?

Besides that being a left wing position, I can tell you that I've met with top police commanders who implemented the NYC crime crackdown, and they were extremely careful to proceed in a lawful way that was approved even by New York's liberal judicial system.

15 posted on 06/22/2007 1:25:55 PM PDT by Williams
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To: Williams
Besides that being a left wing position, I can tell you that I've met with top police commanders who implemented the NYC crime crackdown, and they were extremely careful to proceed in a lawful way that was approved even by New York's liberal judicial system.

You oughta ask those fellas about the Giuliani administration's "anti-DUI" initiative in which vehicles of motorists accused of driving drunk were seized by the police under a civil forfeiture process EVEN IF THE MOTORIST IN QUESTION WAS NOT CONVICTED.

A close review of that whole program ought to be enough to convince real Americans that Giuliani has no business serving in any government capacity in the United States of America.

Anyone who praises that A-hole's "tough-on-crime" track record has no idea what he's talking about.

16 posted on 06/22/2007 1:35:46 PM PDT by Alberta's Child (I'm out on the outskirts of nowhere . . . with ghosts on my trail, chasing me there.)
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To: Williams
So now in the name of conservatism, you are criticizing cleaning up a lawless city, because you believe New Yorkers' civil rights were violated? Besides that being a left wing position, I can tell you that I've met with top police commanders who implemented the NYC crime crackdown, and they were extremely careful to proceed in a lawful way that was approved even by New York's liberal judicial system.

The Constitution is only for liberals? Freedom is a left-wing issue? Who knew? Do you have any idea how many lawsuits Giuliani lost in court for violating people's rights? I'm sure that Stalin made sure that things were safe and peaceful in the city-square, as well.

In 1994 Giuliani and then-police commissioner William Bratton ordered their “elite” Street Crimes Unit to confiscate illegal weapons from pedestrians through a program of stop and search. Charges flew of civil-rights violations and increased police shootings. More than 33,000 people were stopped on New York City’s streets in 1997 and 1998, according to police data. The actual number stopped will never be known because many citizens were stopped and frisked and found not to be carrying unlicensed weapons. Most were sent on their way, and no paperwork or record of the intrusion was filed.
[Philadelphia Inquirer/Knight Ridder, Mar 22, 2007]

Giuliani’s cops, and primarily [the Street Crimes] unit, have adopted aggressive crime-fighting methods. They’ve made stop-and-frisk procedures the centerpiece of their tactics. In the last two years, this unit has stopped and frisked 40,000 New Yorkers. They’ve found grounds to arrest fewer than one in four of them. The Fourth Amendment to the United States Constitution requires cops to stop and frisk only when they have a “reasonable suspicion” - - one they can clearly articulate — that a crime has taken place or is about to take place. That legal nicety seems largely ignored in New York City. Last year, roughly half the felony gun cases brought to court in Manhattan were deemed unconstitutional.
[Times Union, Apr 2, 1999]

The last time we checked, the Fourth Amendment protection `against unreasonable searches and seizures` was still the law of the land. But just get caught driving while intoxicated in New York City, neighboring Nassau County, or what seems likely to become a growing number of jurisdictions across America, and see where the rule of law gets you. In the brave new world of Mayor Rudolph Giuliani’s Big Apple, it will cost you your vehicle on the spot; no trial and conviction required. Along with the Fourth Amendment, you can forget about the Fifth (`No person shall . . . be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law`), Sixth (`the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial`) and the Eighth amendments (`excessive fines shall not be imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishment`).
[The Sunday Patriot, Mar 7, 1999]

Peering from skyscrapers with lenses that can count the buttons on a blouse three miles away, [cameras] watch every move you make. Even Rudy likes to watch. After testing reaction to the monitoring of parks, public pools, and subway platforms, the city is quietly expanding a pilot program on buses. Cameras indistinguishable from lampposts have advanced from the perimeter of Washington Square into the heart of the park. They’re already hidden at some bus stops and intersections to snag speeders and parking perps. More are on the way. The Housing Authority is rushing to put bulletproof cameras in corridors throughout city projects. ... With little public awareness and no debate, the scaffolding of mass surveillance is taking shape. “It’s all about balancing a sense of security against an invasion of privacy,” Rudolph Giuliani insists.
[Village Voice Oct 6, 1998]


18 posted on 06/22/2007 1:51:48 PM PDT by calcowgirl ("Liberalism is just Communism sold by the drink." P. J. O'Rourke)
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To: Williams
So now in the name of conservatism, you are criticizing cleaning up a lawless city, because you believe New Yorkers' civil rights were violated?

At the time, NYC needed Giuliani's type of leadership. Everyone concedes that Giuliani did a respectable (notice I said respectable) job of cleaning up NYC.

Besides that being a left wing position, I can tell you that I've met with top police commanders who implemented the NYC crime crackdown, and they were extremely careful to proceed in a lawful way that was approved even by New York's liberal judicial system.

Rudy's style of leadership simply doesn't play on a national level. Cracking down on crime isn't a prerequisite to becoming President.

34 posted on 06/23/2007 8:23:20 PM PDT by Extremely Extreme Extremist
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