Will Rudy's Get-Tough Image Backfire?

Time ^ | 6/21/07 | DAVID VON DREHLE

[Williams]

Let’s be clear about my position. I am TOTALLY unimpressed by your article from the Village Voice rag. Give me a huge break and gag me with a spoon. And yes I’ve met with the #2 in NY, currently Miami Police Chief, former Philly police chief. A consummate professional, not an abuser of rights. They did a great job cleaning up NYC, the Village Voice not withstanding. What a joke.

[calcowgirl]

Let’s be clear about my position. I am TOTALLY unimpressed by your article from the Village Voice rag.

Philadelphia Inquirer/Knight Ridder, Mar 22, 2007; Times Union, Apr 2, 1999; The Sunday Patriot, Mar 7, 1999; Village Voice Oct 6, 1998. There are many, many more. Take your pick... all say the same thing. Rudy and the Police repeatedly abused their power.

And yes I’ve met with the #2 in NY, currently Miami Police Chief, former Philly police chief. A consummate professional, not an abuser of rights. They did a great job cleaning up NYC, the Village Voice not withstanding. What a joke.

Wow! Really? I'm soooooo impressed! You met one guy, once, and that negates the hundreds of court cases that the Police LOST in court? Well thank you for correcting me! /sarcasm

[hunter112]

Rudy is not fit to manage a Taco Bell!

Yes, but with his affinity for attracting lightning, he could always sell, "Sudden Fried Chicken"!!

[Williams]

You are in a fantasy world where a police crackdown on a corrupt NYC was a nazi blitzkrieg. Don't be impressed that the police officials who handled this are consummate professionals and that what they did passed legal muster in a liberal liberal state. Maybe you should post all the newspaper articles about the "abuses" at Guantanamo. There are many more such articles and many many from much bigger newspapers.

Believing NYC became a civil liberties nightmare is fringe thinking. I don't know why you didn't cite many NYT articles against the crackdown. There were many and they were idiotic.

[calcowgirl]

Hogwash! You remind me of the homeowner’s association folks that want to tell everybody what color they can paint their house so the city will look “prettier.”

Abusing people’s Constitutional Rights is a huge problem. Rudy has a long record of it that should disqualify him as a viable presidential candidate.

[Alberta's Child]

NYC was out of control. Unsafe. Ruled by thugs. And most people thought it was irretrievable.

Any elected official who pursues a "law and order" approach to dealing with crime that borders on -- and in many cases, CROSSES -- the thin line between legal and illegal . . . while at the same time he proudly and willfully violates Federal immigration law by maintaining a "sanctuary city" policy that protects illegal immigrats . . . has no credibility at all.

Keep in mind that the Giuliani administration adopted that vehicle forfeiture policy specifically to deal with all kinds of motor vehicle violations that were being committed by those same illegal aliens he welcomed into the city with open arms. The notion that people who never gave a damn about respecting this nation's borders probably don't give a sh!t about the difference between a blood-alcohol level of 0.05% and 0.25% apparently came as a real surprise to Giuliani.

[Williams]

First, I gather that from Alberta you have an intimate undeerstanding of NYC, as opposed to a mere fool like me who grew up in the NY Metropolitan area and happen to know the #2 police official in NYC at the time.

The fact we BOTH don't agree with Giuliani on illegal aliens does not mean (in my case) that I have to go berserk over his getting tough on motor vehicle violations. If the laws you are going on about were aimed at illegal aliens, all the better as far as I am concerned.

You don't like Giuliani. Fine. but I hardly think that tough DUI laws are going to be the thing that derails him. Just my opinion.

[Williams]

You just remind me that ignorance is not a sound basis for opinions. let me educate you.

No homeowners' association exists or enforces rules to make any "city look nice". Period. Homeowners' assoociations exist in planned communities that are designed from the start with deed restrictions, etc so that certain uniform standards will exist for those who CHOOSE to purchase such a deed restricted home in such a planned community.

They may be townhomes in a certain colonial style with a certain color shingle and siding. If you like the look, buy it. If you want to paint yours orange, purchase from another developer or homeowner elsewhere.

Such rules may have been used in extreme cases to make someone take down a flag or something stupid like that, but for the most part the rules exist because those who BUILT the place set it up that way and no one should buy into a planned community if it happens not to suit their style.

Most importantly, homeowners associations have absolutely zip zero nada to do with illegal aliens, DUI laws, Rudy Giuliani or the governing of NYC.

[calcowgirl]

ROFL! I knew it! Now you try to justify your little utopia. Unvelievable. Those rules were put in place to make everything “pretty”. And if you think you can avoid these places, check out California! Good luck! Whether it is an Association, or nanny-state laws, or crazy city zoning restrictions, private property rights are being taken away every day.

You can have your hero Giuliani. Some of us have looked at his record and know him as a liberal authoritarian.

[Williams]

Well, I have no idea what you're talking about in California. I seriously doubt the state is one giant homeowners association, but if you say it is maybe you know better. As for NYC, I can assure you it has never been a civil liberties nightmare. Your hatred of Giuliani is exaggerated. He qualifies as a hero on 9-11, but he is not my hero. I will support Thompson.

In closing, if you can get the conservative candidate of your choice to criticize Giuliani for the crime cleanup on the ground that it was too authoritarian - well, you're not going to get such a position from any conservative candidate. You might get it from Kucinich.

Nice chatting with you, I will go in peace.

[Alberta's Child]

First, I gather that from Alberta you have an intimate undeerstanding of NYC, as opposed to a mere fool like me who grew up in the NY Metropolitan area and happen to know the #2 police official in NYC at the time.

I was born and raised in the NY metro area, and have lived and worked here most of my life (I was sitting at my desk in northern New Jersey as I typed that). LOL.

I lived through the administrations of Giuliani as well as his predecessors, and I know exactly what changes occurred while he was in office. I supported most of those measures 100% at the time, because New York City was -- and still is, mind you -- such a dysfunctional sh!t-hole that I wouldn't even consider it an American city in any sense of the term.

[Williams]

Sounds right, maybe Alberta is the place to be.

[Extremely Extreme Extremist]

Giuliani has an incredible crime fighting record on the federal and local level.

Irrelevant to the functions of the Presidency.

[Extremely Extreme Extremist]

So now in the name of conservatism, you are criticizing cleaning up a lawless city, because you believe New Yorkers' civil rights were violated?

At the time, NYC needed Giuliani's type of leadership. Everyone concedes that Giuliani did a respectable (notice I said respectable) job of cleaning up NYC.

Besides that being a left wing position, I can tell you that I've met with top police commanders who implemented the NYC crime crackdown, and they were extremely careful to proceed in a lawful way that was approved even by New York's liberal judicial system.

Rudy's style of leadership simply doesn't play on a national level. Cracking down on crime isn't a prerequisite to becoming President.

[Williams]

I have to disagree with you a bit. Put aside Giuliani's social liberalism, which I admit is a problem for the republican party. Put aside Rudy altogether.

One of the biggest problems facing the US is corruption. I certainly believe democrat corruption is a huge part of it, and turning the US Attorneys over to Hilary frightens me. But the corruption is everywhere, and a sizeable portion of it surrounds illegal and legal immigrants. They are evading income tax and other laws, using the system, and sending an enormous amount of cash out of the country. Whoever is president needs to crack down on what truly has become a culture of corruption.

[Extremely Extreme Extremist]

Put aside Giuliani's social liberalism, which I admit is a problem for the republican party. Put aside Rudy altogether.

Not possible. Rudy's support of gun-control, abortion, and homosexual rights undermine his stance on other issues. Rudy isn't credible.

One of the biggest problems facing the US is corruption.

And the guy who supported Kerik and has a state campaign chairman arrested is the one to fight it?

[Williams]

Dude, I’m not discussing Rudy anymore. I’m discussing the problem of corruption facing the US. I will vote for Thompson. Many here are so obsessed with hating Rudy Giuliani that’s all they can complain about. I was addressing, and not in an argumentative style, your reference to crime fighting and the presidency. All I said was we have a huge corruption problem which is eating away at this society and certainly at our economy.