[Jibaholic]

I find it particularly bizarre and ironic coming from a US Republican, but there we go.

I may be going out on a limb here, but it seems like you are British and I would further guess, secular. Unlike British conservatives, American conservatives are mostly Christian. From my perspective, just about all of Western Europe is a perfect object lesson for the dangers of secularization, and England is no exception. England is spiraling into destruction and there is nothing that the party elites - liberal or conservatives - can do to stop it until people at the grass roots get down on their knees and turn to God.

I just don’t understand why so many on this site focus so intently on Britain’s faults, when America’s are so clear for all to see.

I think you need to reread my original post again. Here is a relevant excerpt: "He chronicals the predominately white underclass in England and shows that they suffer from the same pathologies as the black underclass in the United States."

Although I did not dwell on the point, many in America point out that the cause of poverty is the breakdown of marriage. But in America that gets caught up in black/white racial issues. The nice thing about England, and Dalyrmple's book, is that you can take race out of the equation and just focus on the self-destructive nature of poverty.

[maggies girl]

No, you’re quite right, I am British, but you’re wrong on the secular front. Many freepers (and secularists within our own country) seem to use our low church attendance as proof that we are no longer a Christian nation, but I genuinely don’t feel it’s reflective. The one thing that is apparent is that religion is something particularly private for us. My parents, for example, are good God fearing people, yet they VERY rarely discuss religion (neither did my grandparents), and you’ll find most Brits are that way. You may disagree, but I don’t think we can judge someone’s beliefs by where they spend their Sunday mornings, nor should we try.

As to our spiraling out of control, we still have far lower serious crime (rape, murder etc) rates than the US, and I just don’t quite see how higher church attendance makes yours a better society (Have you watched MTV lately?!)? Seriously though, I would be interested in hearing your thoughts.

It is useful to remove race from the equation where poverty is concerned, but clearly black Americans and native Britons are markedly different peoples in every way imaginable, and where does your white underclass fit in?

I do, however, agree that marriage is key to stopping the rot, though the fact that the US has both higher church attendance and a higher divorce rate than Britain, begs further questions.