We'd have more power in EU if Germans hadn't 'reduced our population' in WWII, says Polish PM

Evening Standard ^ | June 21, 2007

[Principled]

Now THAT’S gonna leave a mark...

[Sonny M]

Likewise, Germany and France might have larger populations had not Romans invaded and made war on them for many years. Reduce the votes of the Italians. Oh, and remember when Henry V invaded France? Extra votes for the French. I kind of remember some guy named Princip (ok, he wasn’t from an EU nation, but still) executing Archduke Ferdinand and his wife, so that’s two more votes for Austria.

This isn't a few hundred years or a thousands of years ago, just a few decades.

Germany wants to benefit now from prior bad acts, its kind of like a serial killer wanting to write a book and keep all the profits from his crimes using the arguement that his killings happened along time ago, while the families of his victims are still alive.

[dfwgator]

Suggested compromise - give Poland the extra votes, and move the borders back to their 1938 locations. Everyone should be happy with that, shouldn’t they?

One problem. Poland would then have to reclaim the land the Soviets stole from them after the war. I don't think the Ukrainians and Belarussians would much care for that.

[HaveHadEnough]

You're not supposed to be able to profit from crime.

Exactly what crime has some 30 year-old machinist living in Bonn committed?

This is about reparations. It is about making people who had nothing to do with WWII pay for the crimes of the generation that caused it.

[dfwgator]

You are correct. Approximately 1 in 5 Poles died, or something extraordinary like that. Some FReeper no doubt can supply the correct figures.

The Polish intelligentsia and business classes were targeted for extermination by the Nazis. And the ones the Nazis didn't get, the Soviets did. Those who did manage to escape the country were not welcomed back by the Soviet puppets who ran Poland after the war.

[CarrotAndStick]

This isn't a few hundred years or a thousands of years ago, just a few decades.

So will the Blacks say the same, about Segregation. And most likely, the Native Americans too.

[dfwgator]

Reparations!

Germany got The Marshall Plan after the war, Poland got 40+ years of Soviet Domination, thanks to Yalta.

[2ndDivisionVet]

There are people still alive that were harmed by the Nazis, so “long dead” doesn’t make much sense here. Yes, the Roman Empire, or some “long dead” regime shouldn’t come into play, but many of our fathers and grandfathers (and I daresay a few FReepers, themselves) fought the Nazis, so they are still relevant, IMO.

[dfwgator]

ping

[skimbell]

"...You're not supposed to be able to profit from crime."

While we're at it, lots of people say that the U.S. committed a huge crime by "stealing" this country from the then current owners. Any profit from that action? I'll bet there are some staggering numbers associated with the death toll among the natives as a result of our action there.

The bottom line is that a lot of things have happened throughout history. If it makes you feel better to blame someone, great. It's probably not going to do much to set thing right though.

[2ndDivisionVet]

Segregation, the Confederacy and the pre War-between-the- States South were all controlled by the democratic party, which now garners about 90% of the black vote. Are they going to sue themselves?

[wideawake]

While we're at it, lots of people say that the U.S. committed a huge crime by "stealing" this country from the then current owners.

They can say that all they want, but the facts do not tally with their claims.

[2ndDivisionVet]

That is why I like Ambassador John Bolton so much; he doesn’t speak in the usual diplomatic mealymouthed double-talk, he comes out and says what he means!!

[Sonny M]

So will the Blacks say the same, about Segregation. And most likely, the Native Americans too.

There is a bit of a differance between killing somones family, and then trying to claim the benefits from doing so, and having great great great great grand papi killing someone elses great great great great grand papi, or segregation, which afforded no benefits to anyone, just mistreatment of one group.

Its akin to a "son of sam" law in New York barring someone from profitting directly from the crimes they committed, especially, when those survivors are still alive and now are being asked to give up power.

The best way to look at it, Germany, not that long ago, went to war so as to become the dominant power of europe, they killed lots of people, now not to long after, they want to be the dominant power of europe because they have a bigger population then other nations, which is a direct result, of them having tried to be the dominant power not to long ago, its like if after first you do not succeed, try something different and then try again, but do not toss away the fruits of your previous labor.

[mngran]

...its kind of like a serial killer wanting to write a book and keep all the profits from his crimes using the arguement that his killings happened along time ago, while the families of his victims are still alive.

Grandchildren of Archduke Ferdinand still living:

-HSH Prince Franz Ferdinand Karl Georg Ernst von Hohenberg
-HSH Prince Ernst Georg Elemer Albert Josef Antonius Peregrinus Rupertus Maria von Hohenberg
- HSH Princess Eva Anne Maria von Hohenburg
- HSH Georg, Duke of Hohenberg
- HSH Prince Albrecht von Hohenberg
- HSH Prince Peter von Hohenberg
- HSH Prince Gerhard von Hohenberg
- Countess Sophie Amalia Theresia Quirinia Henriette Lucretia Magdalena Maria Ignatia von Nostitz-Rieneck
- And numerous great grandchildren, etc.

So, I still say two more votes for Austria if we're giving the Poles exrtra points. And whom do you think populates Germany and France? Survivors of Roman invasions. Into the minus column, Italy!

Where do you propose to draw the line. Only atrocities from 60 years ago? 100 years? 5? 1000? I vote for zero.

[Constitution Day]

[Riodacat]

You are correct. Approximately 1 in 5 Poles died, or something extraordinary like that. Some FReeper no doubt can supply the correct figures.

Approx 6 million Poles were killed in WW2 - 50% of those were Jews.
Note that a portion of those were killed by the Ruskies when they took over part of Poland as part of a deal with the Germans and also later near the end of the war when the Ruskies aided in the elimination of Polish nationlists in order to engineer the establishement of a commie state.
Personally, I think the Poles are unwise in whinning about WW2. They took over a large portion of eastern Germany at the end of WW2 as part of a settlement and if they push things too far, they could be in for another ass kicking.

[Sonny M]

Where do you propose to draw the line. Only atrocities from 60 years ago? 100 years? 5? 1000? I vote for zero.

So if someone murders someones family, they get to write a book and keep all the profits?

The son of sam could be a millionaire under this type of scenario, as could most serial killers who can put a pen (or marker) to paper.

One should not benefit from crimes one committed, or even worse, use the fruits of that crime to benefit immediatly over those very victims.

Also, you mentioned Austria, couldn't an arguement be made to take away votes?

[PAR35]

. I don't think the Ukrainians and Belarussians would much care for that.

But it would cure most of the current conflict within the Ukraine between the Catholics and the Orthodox, the Europhiles and those who look toward Russia.

[SolidWood]

Poland took over a large portion of eastern Germany at the end of WW2

... while loosing even more territory to the Soviet-Union.