Not even close to being true. There was certainly enough witness statements and forensic evidence to warrant an investigation, and probably enough to bring this to an Art. 32 hearing.
The critical difference between a soldier and a terrorist is the rules of discipline that soldiers must follow. Soldiers do not have carte blanche to just kill 'em all. To the extent that those were the allegations against the Haditha Marines, those charges had to be taken seriously and the legal process followed to the conclusion.
It appears that the Marines were vindicated. That's wonderful news - but let's not go overboard and start impugning the integrity of the officers who were duty-bound to investigate and prosecute based on these allegations.
I’ve had it up to here with all these broad-brush attacks against MARINES and from people who don’t know jack-squat about WAR.
Tell you what - once someone starts calling all Marines "war criminals" or "baby killers," then the analogy works. Until that point, however, there has not been a single broad-brush attack against the Marines by anyone here.
All I'm saying is that the JAGs are military officers who deserve respect too. I know too many of them to think anything different.
There you go again. “Soldiers do not have carte blanche to just kill ‘em all.” Do you think we’re all stupid and don’t know that? It’s obviously perfectly fine with you to impugn the integrity of Marines on the ground, but ‘we’ shouldn’t go overboard and impugned the integrity of JAGs, etc.
Well, we’ll just wait until all the evidence in in on the JAGs and NCIS.
Oh. Wait. How many JAG/NCIS actions, lives, careers, etc., etc., etc., put on hold or ruined. None. Can’t even get an investigation.
Damn glad you’re not a JAG, jude. Every freaken jihadi would run crying murder to you. And you’d listen.
The problem is a VERY thorough report WAS filed through appropriate channels (some of the details were declassified so we read them yesterday), up the chain of command. Everyone was satisfied. Because of intelligence gathered they all had knowledge we didn’t (i.e. that the guy “shopping” for a journalist was part of the insurgency, that there was a major attack planned on troops that day, that it would involve a white car, etc.) Once questions were raised there was even an investigation by an army officer who was totally uninvolved with this operation. HE came to the conclusion no investigation was warranted.
Then, TIME magazine puts out their “insurgent approved” version (along with the subsequent retractions that no one saw), Murtha gets into the act and the lives of these men and their families become a living hell. It’s pretty easy for us to say “well the system works”. These people have had to take out 2nd mortgages, cash in retirement accounts (generally people with adult children are older and close to retirement so this could be a HUGE hardship for them), etc. to pay for their legal defense. Granted, it’s a sacrifice I would gladly make if it were my son. But given what we’ve learned in the past couple of days (and what the Marines and even NCIS knew all along), this never should have been brought to trial AT ALL.
These NCIS investigators will go back to their jobs with NO repercussions, the JAG lawyers will move on to the next case as if it were just another day (because for them it will be). But what about these brave Marines? Even if they wanted to stay in the Corps, they’ll never feel the same about it again, they’d never be able to go into battle without hesitating, and there will be people who (especially with a movie coming out) will NEVER believe things happened the way they did. I can tell you, this would absolutely devastate my son. He wanted to be a Marine so bad he could taste it, he loves the Corps and wants to be a part of it for a long time.
These investigators and lawyers may have just been doing their job, but that’s really all it was to them, a job...they go home at night and leave it behind and regardless of the outcome, they’ll still have a job the next day, next week, next year. These men not only had to fight for their lives in Haditha, but for their freedom here at home. It’s kind of ironic if you think about it, they risked their lives to bring liberty to strangers thousands of miles away, only have to fight for their own freedom. Had this not been sensationalized, had it not been twisted so negatively in the press, these men and their families would never have to go through this. Had the Corps stood behind them and said there won’t be any hearings because they did nothing wrong they, like the investigators at NCIS or the lawyers at JAG, would just have gone “back to work” the next day like everyone else. It’s a tragedy. We should be embarrassed that “We the People” and our military can be manipulated this way. We both should know better.
Cindie
I have.
When there are civilians killed, there will ALWAYS be evidence of a crime. Cause it's a crime that they were involved or in the AO. Guerrillas hide among civilians and are killed, paraded bodies and videos of kids dismembered are shown...all the time. Guess what, that's war. It's brutal, it involves intimidation of both the enemy and the people who "cover" for them.
Carrot and stick. You help the enemy, get the stick. Help the good guys, get the carrot.
The only ones that see shades of gray in combat ARE lawyers, politicians and the quislings that help our enemies.
The men who rape women, steal money, or murder cause they develop the taste for it, should be lined up against the wall and shot. You can't legislate morality.
Put yourself in the position of these Marines for one instance if you can. Somebody that you loved is killed, but not just lying down and stopping breathing. But found in chunks all over the road. You see guys that you know are responsible and go into houses that shoot at you.
do you engage and destroy them?
War sucks, but it sucked before we had JAG/NCIS officers getting a hard#n for prosecuting guys that have survived combat, and now safe and sound at home have to fight for their lives. This is all about POLITICS and destroying the Corps.
Not even close to being true. There was certainly enough witness statements and forensic evidence to warrant an investigation, and probably enough to bring this to an Art. 32 hearing.
From enemy sympathizers. Guess what read up on what the islamo-facists say on how to combat the Marines/Army/Military...gum up the works with our own institutions, such as the legal one.
As far as being "duty bound" to investigate, well there you do have a point. However, who is the lead officer who gave the green light to this POS.
Will he be running for office as a "MARINE OFFICER"? Puhleeze. With these legal attacks on the Corps and Pace's removal from JCS, even you've got to see that this is a way of attacking the fighting spirit of the Corps.
If you can't see that, then so be it. I have nothing to say, except next time you're in the sh#t, call a JAG/NCIS warrior and throw some books at the enemy since they've got the market on how to conduct war.