Illegal Immigrants Steal Social Securities Of Elderly, Dead

Judicial Watch ^ | 13 JUNE 2007 | Tom Fitton

[no-to-illegals]

America, America why not an adherence to thy law!
Other nations do it, Are we just leaving the door open as a death wish?
or leadership's death wish?
This invitation is to an assured fact 'open borders' may create major boom, booms going off (I hope never), now why again must I live in a more dangerous America, because someone is waving a carrot called 'amnesty'
Our own intelligence has mentioned but knows not time nor place, or plan
as is the way of .......I apologize is can't be defined.
it goes as an honorable mention
but then dear Lord I don't think anyone thought we would be here in a short (less than 10 years) time.
Then we have congress and the president attempting to throw the US of A away.....?!
or is the situation so crazed and suffering the same fate as other perishables.....
as you might be an illegal if you don't wait in line to have an offer (criminal or illegal) before an offer is presented as an actual coerced anomaly that the illegal offers no intent?
and believe it or not the aforementioned is the point argued by those arguing for and on behalf of the illegals.
I know now that I've argued successfully for their rights and guarantees, as given under the Constitution to those citizens (people) will be the cry of my leaders?
I best STFU or someone will be down on my head....LOL

[anglian]

http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/viewByAuthor.asp?authorID=647&resultsPerPage=25&pageNumber=2

[ndt]

"Social Security has been considered the untouchable “third rail” of politics."

Assuming you're right (worst case scenario) wouldnt the real solution be privatization of SS. Then those who pay in get whats due them regardless of status.

[muggs]

The article is talking about people paying taxes into the accounts, not stealing the payments.

Pretend your ss# is 123-45-6789. Say one of them is using your social security number and they earn $20,000. DelMonte reports to the government that social security number 123-45-6789 earned $20,000. When you neglect to report this $20,00 in income the IRS is going to come looking for you.

[ndt]

"When you neglect to report this $20,00 in income the IRS is going to come looking for you."

Then you show them that you are a lawyer in Florida (or whatever) and were not working picking lettuce in California.

I had a very similar situation happen to me to the tune of 50,000 dollars. It took about 20 minutes for me to clear it up and have the wage attachment removed.

It should not happen, but the reality at least in my situation was that it was very easy to rectify by telephone.

[boop]

Hmmm... so as long as I’m “hard-working” it’s OK according to the mayor to be employed under a fake SSN? Does this apply to Americans trying to avoid income tax too?

[anglian]

A self-employed person pays 15.3% to the government for Social Security, Disability and Medicare taxes. Employees pay half the 15.3% and their employers pay the other half. Anyway you cut it, it is 15% out of every person’s income paid to the government, and then we taxpayers suffer the indignity of having that 15% subject to double taxation by having to include it in the computation of our taxable income.

Now don’t go wobbly before I explain how we can afford to do this. But first let’s look at what we are trying to accomplish. In an average 40-year working life a minimum wage earner stuck at $7.25 per hour for 40 years will accumulate a nest egg of $1.2 Million dollars just from the investment of that 15% and the earnings over the years that compounds like a snowball.

http://dickmcdonald.blogspot.com/2007_04_01_archive.html#613550557623169918

[ndt]

"Now don’t go wobbly before I explain how we can afford to do this."

Well if you're supporting privatization of SS a la the Chilean model, then I'm with you.

It does scare me a little bit that you sound like an infomercial.

[Rick_Michael]

10 years if I do it.

Amnesty if you’re illegal.

Funny system...

[gubamyster]

ping

[fr_freak]

No, thats fraud. But fraud that results in a net gain is better then fraud that results in a net loss, that is just plain ol common sense.

You would be naive to think that what we are seeing in such a situation is a net gain. But from reading your earlier statements on this matter, it seems to me that you are not naive so much as you are being deliberately misleading.

Let's look at the broad picture. The amount of money that those illegals who are being paid above the table put into Social Security is trivial compared to the cost in social services that they incur (emergency room care, public housing assistance, welfare, etc.). Those who are paid under the table pay no taxes, and still tend to incur the same costs as above. That is a net loss either way.

Now, if we were to view false payments into Social Security as being benign, you have to first remember that the identity fraud these people are perpetrating is what enables them to remain here and incur the costs above. If they had no jobs, they could not stay here and in many cases, the use of the fake SSNs allows them to have the job, albeit with a probable wink and nod from the employer. If we were to crack down on SSN/identity fraud, those jobs would go away and we would have a net benefit to us. In addition to that, the need for SSNs that the illegal presence perpetuates creates a market for stolen SSNs, which motivates criminals to steal them. If a criminal is going to steal your SSN, you would be a fool to think that he would limit his use of the SSN to mere illegal employment.

Finally we should remember that all the while, Congress and the President are doing there best to include llegals as recipients under the Social Security program. They haven't quite succeeded yet, but they keep trying. In order to justify that effort, they often point to the paying into the system of the current crop of illegals.

[ndt]

"You would be naive to think that what we are seeing in such a situation is a net gain."

I've seen studies from what I consider to be equally reputable sources that come to conflicting conclusions on the question. A humans interactions with society are complex and trying to evaluate their benefit to cost ratio is very open to interpretation.

"Let's look at the broad picture. The amount of money that those illegals who are being paid above the table put into Social Security is trivial compared to the cost in social services that they incur"

It's really just a math problem, the trick is getting accurate information.

Lets take a study based in Oregon (to match the article). The conclusion is that in Oregon, there are between 125,000 – 175,000 illegal workers who make between $1.8 billion and $2.5 billion annually and pay between $65 million and $90 million in taxes, $56 million and $79 million annually in Social Security taxes, and another $13 million to $18 million annually in Medicare taxes. Their employers pay between $28 million and $39 million in state unemployment insurance taxes on their behalf.

So to be a net drain, illegals in Oregon would need to consume roughly 130 - 150 million dollars in services.

What is the actual cost incurred by the +- 150,000 illegals in Oregon? I don't know, it's not real easy to tabulate.

"In addition to that, the need for SSNs that the illegal presence perpetuates creates a market for stolen SSNs, which motivates criminals to steal them."

Agreed, that is why I support a guest worker program on the order of 10 million workers who work using their own tax ids.

"Finally we should remember that all the while, Congress and the President are doing there best to include llegals as recipients under the Social Security program"

I would agree with this only if SS is privatized first.

[dennisw]

Gracias a Jorge Bush!!

[dennisw]

He immediately issued a written statement expressing his anger and referring to the illegal immigrants as “Portland residents.”

 "Undocumented Americans" sounds much better. That's what Sen. Harry Reid calls them

[eeevil conservative]

I am sure they only raiding the companies who don’t donate to the KINGS in DC...

[gpapa]

For a rather disturbing story about illegal trespass go here: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1849363/posts

IMHO, fraud is a “crime”, at least as perceived by most of the public. Such a violation of law can result in criminal or civil liability, or both in some cases as with the OJ. In California, under current law, a third strike, as with unlawful breaking and entering three times by the same person or persons is considered a felony.

[fr_freak]

So to be a net drain, illegals in Oregon would need to consume roughly 130 - 150 million dollars in services.

They only need to consume 130-150 million to be a net drain? OK, let's start with schooling expenses. We have to make some assumptions here, so lets assume that only half of those 175,000 workers (87,500) are in families with children, and that each family has 2 kids (giving us 175,000 kids). Both are low estimates according to my experience. Now, according to the Oregon School Boards Association, spending per pupil in Oregon in 2000-01 was $7,357. $7557 x 175,000 = 1.287 billion dollars. If we wanted to, we could assume a ridiculously low number of children for 175,000 illegal workers and use the figure of 1/10 of my original estimate, or 17,500 children, and we would still have $7557 x 17,500 = 132 million dollars. We've already reached your figure.

However, now we're going to add incarceration costs. According to this , illegal aliens cost Oregon 31 million per year to house deportable criminal illegal aliens.

Now let's add medical costs. Apparently stats on emergency room use by illegal aliens are hard to find for Oregon, but Congress's Emergency Medical Treatment and Labor Act apportions reimbursement for unpaid medical care to each state in proportion to the number of illegal aliens, and while New York received $12 million and California $70 million, Oregon received $2 million, which covers a fraction of the actual cost.

As you can see, these basic services have already surpassed your minimum requirement for net loss, and that was using low-end estimates. However, there are many hidden costs to the presence of illegals as well: the printing of government documents in Spanish (and other languages), the rise in cost of automobile, health, and life insurance based on the assumption of cost burden of the uninsured by the insured (illegal aliens are certainly uninsured), cost to citizens who are victims of illegal alien theft, rape, robbery, drunk driving etc. You get the idea.

[ndt]

"As you can see, these basic services have already surpassed your minimum requirement for net loss, and that was using low-end estimates."

First, I welcome the fact that you are showing a willingness to actually compare facts. Thank you.

I have no doubt that the single major cost will be in the form of education of children. However, I think your estimate on the number of children is much too high since

1) The majority of illegals are young working males without family here

and

2) Some significant portion of the children of illegals are U.S. citizens and should not be lumped with the rest any more then I would lump the cost of your education in there.

If you can find a specific source giving a researched number of undocumented students in Oregon please ping me. I'll see what I can dig up.

[2ndDivisionVet]

Just say NO to Amnesty!! Keep calling!! It’s NOT OVER!!

U.S. Senate switchboard: (202) 224-3121

U.S. House switchboard: (202) 225-3121

White House comments: (202) 456-1111

Find your House Rep.: http://www.house.gov/writerep

Find your US Senators: http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm

[antceecee]

See my post 41... this guy is an iddd...jutttt...