Tony Snow: LIVE on Fox and Friends (Subject: Bush's Immigration Push)

FOX & Friends

[Ultra Sonic 007]

Tony Snow is about to appear live on FOX & Friends on FOX News. The subject is Bush's push for immigration "reform".

[joanie-f]

Great analysis, philman! If more people would read the bill (fat chance), maybe the American government would be less likely to eventually succeed in promoting a deadly deception on the American people. (Man, if our Founders could travel through time to 2007 and comprehend what this bill contains, they would refuse to believe that it is being proposed in the senate for which they laid the blueprint – Oops! I forgot. That original blueprint has been so convoluted by the Seventeenth Amendment that they wouldn’t even recognize the senate itself.)

(As I’m sure you know, but ninety percent of our countrymen don’t – nor to they appear to care), the z-visa is every bit as much of a sham as the English language provision.

All an illegal has to do to qualify for the (sham) 'visa' is hold down a job -- or be the parent, spouse, or child of someone with a job -- and create a piece of paper as evidence that he was in the country before January 1.

The bill calls the (sham) ‘visa’ temporary, and yet it can be renewed indefinitely, until the visa holder dies. (I’ve decided to apply for a similar ‘temporary’ extension on my income tax payment this year, although I strongly suspect that the U.S. government’s definition of ‘temporary’ will prove to be situational.)

According to the terms of the bill, if the ICE apprehends an alien who might be eligible for the z-visa (and, by my early calculations, 99.99% of them are), they are not permitted to detain him, but, instead, must help him in his visa application. So federal law enforcement agents will be instantaneously transformed into customer service help-desk employees. And why not? ICE agents need job security too, and ‘law enforcement’ is fast becoming an anachronism anyway (at least where non-citizens are concerned).

God help the law-abiding American citizen. He no longer has anywhere to turn for justice and security – the only two real Constitutional powers that his federal government is supposed to have.

~ joanie

[cardinal4]

What these people are being asked to pay is way more than most misdemeanors require. Calling this amnesty is just incorrect.

AMNESTY AMNESTY AMNESTY!!!!!!

With the stroke of pen, 12 million folks are suddenly eligible for my job. Why should my company pay ME what they pay me, if Julio will do it for half what Im paid??

***AMNESTY AMNESTY AMNESTY***

[NonLinear]

A+

[angkor]

But I think it was partly brought on by those very conservatives who were unwilling to discuss it a year ago, when Bush first floated an immigration plan. The matter has got to be dealt with but politicians are unwilling to touch it because they know it's a live wire, so Bush should at least have gotten points for having the courage to bring it up.

Whatttttt!@?!?!??

George Bush's first formal proposal was january 2004, not last year. Go to whitehouse .gov and look at the Immigration archive, it's there.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2004/01/20040107-3.html

He also made some less formal but equally repellent proposals in the months preceding 9/11/2001. In fact there was a debate raging here on FR the very morning of 9/11.

Bush should get zero points, because he has badly implemented and not enforced our existing immigration laws. New laws are not required, enforcement is. And George Bush hasn't yet tried that.

[Ron H.]

Explaining would be a change. This will be another condescending 3 minutes, in which Tony will try to tell us how short sighted and ignorant we all are.

And to think I used to think fairly highly of Tony Snow, before he sold out his principles and conservative beliefs and became the paid mouthpiece hatchet man to this unethical and big-business corrupted administration. I longer have any respect for the man/weasel. He is no better than his socialist sell-out el jefe Jorge Boosh.

[angkor]

We've altered things in this country to the point where they don't NEED citizenship or even permanent residency

Correct. The Z visa is permanent. You can stay forever, no need for PR or citizenship.

You know who "immigration reform" really "brings out of the shadows"?

Tyson, Hormel, Libby, Cargill, American Home Builders Assoc., Council of Fast Food Restaurants, etc. Enormous trade groups (aka K Street Lobbyists) who presently open themselves to massive RICO lawsuits due to their huge illegal alien workforces.

[philman_36]

Great analysis, philman!
Thanks, but it wasn't quite right. That was on the original bill as it stood.
Go to reply #282 for the new and improved requirements.
It'll be damned hard for "Average Joe" to understand what the final bill says. I'm somewhat learned in reading this stuff (self taught 'cause I KNOW I'm not going to get any help from the government in figuring out what they're doing) and I'm finding it hard to muck it all out.

[b4its2late]

It would make the immigration problem more manageable if no one had a free ride.

Exactly. Half of them just might go home on their own.

[angkor]

Amnesty benefits do not wait for the “enforcement trigger.” After filing an application and waiting 24 hours, illegal aliens will receive full “probationary benefits,”

It's even more demonstrably an Amnesty because immunity from immigration laws begins the moment the bill is signed. Instantly!!

"If an alien is apprehended during the 180 days after enactment, and can prove that he or she would qualify for a Z visa, that alien will not be deported. (Section 601(h)(5))."

Administration-Proposed Substitute to S. 1348: “Secure Borders, Economic Opportunity, & Immigration Reform Act of 2007”

aka S.AMDT.1150

[Texas Federalist]

I should have read your post first! You beat me too it.

It bears repeating since I haven't heard the point of restitution addressed anywhere in the media.

[SUSSA]

You’re right. There is no way anyone who knows what’s in the bill can honestly say it isn’t amnesty.

[Ron H.]

I’d like to hear him explain to the American people why he feels his boss should flip off the American people, the very same people he asked to trust him and elect him on the premise that he would govern from the middle>right and do what those who elected to do. Why he thinks he can just tell 85-92% of his fellow countrymen that they are all wrong and he knows better as to what to do with this illegal alien boondoggle.

Why everyone should just STFU and let him have his way. I’d like to know the answer to these questions! And why we shouldn’t impeach his sorry arse for defying the will of the overwhelming vast majority of his base and the American citizens and tax payers. Why?!?

[philman_36]

I also noticed that there is nothing stating what happens if they fail the test.
What happens to them then? There's nothing stated in the bill so do they get to apply for some other visa, do they get deported...do they fall under some other new classification of undocumented worker?
Makes you wonder.

[angkor]

I'm somewhat learned in reading this stuff (self taught 'cause I KNOW I'm not going to get any help from the government in figuring out what they're doing) and I'm finding it hard to muck it all out.

The real meat is in the 1150 amendments, that's mainly what was being amended last week before Reid shot things down. In fact all three cloture votes were about S.AMDT.1150, not S.1348.

But I agree Phil, tracking the amendments to Amendment 1150 is a task. I used to work on this stuff in DC from time to time, but never mastered the trick of decoding some of the legislative formatting.

[bill1952]

I’ve emailed him a few times since he became the White House press secretary to invite him to explain to us here on FR his stance on this repugnant course of events, but he ignores FreeRepublic and those of us on it now.

Of course, he is quite busy now, perhaps, but I doubt, even more so than when he was a private commentator, but I did remind him just who the people are who supported him unwaveringly when things for him were very tough indeed. - Perhaps I should have written in spanish for all of the attention that he pays to us now.

We are now totally ignored, while at one time, we were quoted by him. - Sorry Tony. - Goodbye.

[JeffAtlanta]

Ok--just watched Tony's segment. He said that while enforcement for the 1986 bill was a "joke," THIS time, it would be different. Tony sounded sincere and I wish I could believe him, but but the government simply does not have any credibility on this issue.

They have a lot more credibility if they would enforce the current laws first and build the fence. Once that was done then the topic of what to do with those already here could be addressed.

The fact that that Bush demands "comprehensive" reform shows that he is disingenious on this topic. Bush also tries to equate spending more more money on the border patrol to increasing enforcement.

Unless you have the borders actually guarded, it doesn't matter how much money is spent or how many people are hired.

[Excuse_My_Bellicosity]

Yup. I thought that this would be a good gig for Tony, guess not. I’d quit the job before going to the public to tout garbage of this magnitude. Not that a press secretary has to agree with the president on every tiny thing, but this is fundamentally un-conservative on so many levels.

[NonLinear]

(2). The alien may make up to three attempts to demonstrate such understanding and knowledge but must satisfy this requirement prior to the expiration of the second extension of Z nonimmigrant status.

So as I'm reading it they have up to the end of their second extension, just short of eight years, to pass the test. If it passes as amended.

I get twelve years:
4 years of the initial Z visa
4 years granted by the first extension
4 years before the expiration of the 2nd extension

[Prokopton]

I will always support Tony, which doesn’t mean that I will always agree with him, but his ability to make his case without behaving badly is something we need on the right.

To you outright lying appears not to be "behaving badly".

I am starting to wonder if FR and other conservative media is enabling conservatives and Republicans to undermine themselves as dissent appears to be not an option.

There is nothing wrong with dissent, it's the blatant dishonesty that's unpalatable. If Bush, and Snow, would have come out truthfully and admitted that "Of course it's amnesty, but we believe this type of amnesty is good for the Country", their at least could be a debate. If they would have said "Yes, we know the first thing this bill will do is grant immediate legal status to millions of people who are now illegal and this will be done before any efforts at enforcement", the merits of the action could be discussed. If they would have admitted that "Sure, Americans will do any job if their paid enough, but we think it is good for America to bring in people from other countries who will do the work cheaper than Americans", the pros and cons could be looked at. If there would have been an admission that "We know this bill will cost the taxpayers trillions of dollars, but it will be money well spent", Americans could judge for themselves. This of course, was not done,in fact, you'll note that rarely was there any mention of American citizens by the promoters of this bill.

The American people have been lied to over and over and over again. FR is a place with many members who work to uncover the lies and to hold the liars accountable. If you think that this is not "civil" your definition of civility needs to be adjusted. If you believe the lies and manipulation that were used to try to ram this bill down the throats of the American people was just "dissent", and those who supported doing this just "dissenters", you are on the wrong forum. We will not let people destroy our Country and we will call a spade a spade and a traitor a traitor. Live with it!

[philman_36]

http://rpc.senate.gov/_files/L37Immigration051506LB.pdf
I have no idea why you linked that .pdf as it pertains to S. 2611 and is from May 15, 2006.