Posted on 06/10/2007 6:44:05 AM PDT by indcons
President Bush, getting a hero's welcome as the first American president to visit this Balkan nation, said Sunday that there cannot be endless dialogue about achieving independence for neighboring Kosovo.
"Sooner rather than later you've got to say `Enough's enough. Kosovo's independent,'" Bush said during a news conference with the prime minister of this tiny, impoverished country.
Bush's press for statehood was aimed at Russia and others that object to Kosovo's independence. Standing alongside Prime Minister Sali Berisha, Bush said any extension of talks on Kosovo must have "certain independence" as the goal.
In response to Albania's push for NATO membership, Bush said additional political and military reforms were needed before that could be considered something the country's leaders said they understood.
(Excerpt) Read more at abcnews.go.com ...
What are the “particular interests” of Germany in Kosovo except of avoiding a flood of refugees that would try to get to Germany in the case that “nationalistic” Serbs and/or the KLA would take over?
What are the “particular interests” of the US, Russa and only God knows who else in these few squarekilometers of badland? From my point of view there is nothing of extraordinary interest like oil, industry, skilled inhabitants or whatever that would explain a agressive war of conquest. Such wars usually have to pay out (although de facto they never do) for the conquerors.
Believe it or not - we all did that to avoid a human disaster and now we have to pay for a new and useless protectorate. We Germans have for sure experience enough in wars of aggression to know that this is a business where you can not earn any money.
Nevertheless I find your suggestion to invite the Turks to the Kosovo to resolve the situation quite interesting. To my knowlege the Turks are even less “adored” by the Serbs compared to us Germans because of manifold historical reasons.
NATO has 16.000 men under their command in that area. If Poland sends 8.000 and the Turks send 8000 (which should be no problem to them), I do not see any reason why you should not take over. In Germany we have a deep grumbling about a endless and useless operation in the nowhere and you Poles are reliable people. We are not interested into the leadership of Kosovo as long as the Kosovarians are content with it. Serbians or Albanians? I do not care. To tell you the truth: Merkel would be constrained to pass over immediately because of German internal politics if your President should make a suchlike suggestion.
Go for it!
War is okay as long as you know what you are fighting for. That can be defense, freedom, ideology or even - money. Now tell me what are we fighting for in Kosovo?
We Germans learned our lessons out of too many useless wars. If we fight wars today, than we try to restrict ourselves to operations with the prospect of success. We have good reasons to keep out of hopeless situations. Of course we can not tell this in the public to our allies since it would be very damaging for them if we would explain some of their key operations as complete nonsense. Nevertheless our friends always knew what we were/are thinking and therefore this behaviour was/is no backstabbing.
I do not see any reason except of the avoidance of a human disaster to engage ourselves in Kosovo. Therefore the inhabitants of that area should prepare themselves for a solution that makes it possible for us to get out of their country again. Their own incapacity is the sole reason that forces the civilized world to deploy soldiers in this strange country.
Serbs know why they are/were fighting for,against albanians and their strategy(there is an open border between KOSOVO and ALBANIA).
The war which is going on is a world war that germans refuse to see(like french)against terrorism with a background of civilizational shock that wordy wishfull thinking multiculturalists deny.And in europe we should know that this war is also ,is first,demographic.
I don’t think that most of the germans learned the lessons of the past.I think that most of them are traumatized by their past and can’t face the entire reality.That is that you have to face,resist and fight against totalitarianism and for your core values(if you have some).IN OTHER WORDS YOU HAVE TO MAKE WAR
How about America George?
I never said that multiculturalism is the answer to our German or French societies. But you should go deeper. If you take the time to analyze the German and French situation you will find out that there is a fundamental difference betweem our countries in regard to immigrants out of muslim nations.
While France has between 8 - 10 % muslims from north Africa with a extremly agressive background Germany is dealing with 3.7 % muslims who came usually from Turkey. You know for sure that the vast majority of those Turks are quite decent people who are only interested into work and a stable economical situation. Women from Turkey have a comparable birth rate to their German sisters since they also learned about the vantages of modern birth control. Germany has indeed some local problems with young unemployed male Turks in Berlin i.e. but there is nothing comparable to the desaster you Frenchmen are confronted with.
France is paying a high price today for its colonial BS of the past. Your muslim immigrants accrete like rabbits and due to their ancestry they stick to a extremly agressive form of islam. Therefore you have to do some unpleasant things now if you want to keep the situation under control. Some suggestions:
1. Every immigrant has to confirm on oath that he respects your constitution and a catalogue of basic values.
2. Those who have sworn have to be absorbed into the French society. That means that they need work and prospect. Therefore France has to change its system to capitalism and away from a paternal state since only such policy will provide enough jobs.
3. The getthoes (banlieues) have to be smashed. If you want to absorb people into a society you can not tolerate such gatherings.
4. Those of the immigrants who refuse to vow or who misbehave because of religious or ethnical reasons have to be kicked out. If their home countries refuse to take them back we should take them into camps. All economic contacts with the refusing countries should be stopped.
BTW - I commend the same in Germany although the situation is much more under control (I know what I am talking about since a large part of my family is living in Paris).
I do not see any reason why France should be traumatized by history. Okay - we Germans invaded you 60 years ago, but this is BS of the past and over. To tell you the truth - Germany has also gotten over WWII since the old generation is dust in the meantime. All this political correct whining is just lip-service of a few politicians. On the other hand we have learned -as I already said- out of our really fundamental faults in the past. The world can be sure that Germany will not act as a platform of agression anymore. Therefore we are for sure not interested into hopeless wars in Kongo, Darfur or elsewhere. Simply none of our business. The (peaceful) German Afghanistan operation is already unpleasant enough.
I do not say this because I am a pacifistic idiot. My grandfather was a professional officer of the Wehrmacht and I served in the Bundeswehr. I simply do not want to see our soldiers involved into hopeless operations. There has to be some logic behind wars and a little less emotion. For that purpose we have to learn that some things can not be changed. It is impossible to solve the ME situation with force from the west i.e., because the Arabs do not want us to help them. If you want to "solve" this situation you have to kill all of them. We Germans made some bad experience with genocide. Therefore I recommend to sit on the fence.
It is difficult to draw a line where war makes sense and where it does not. We can learn from the US operation in Iraq that preemptive strikes are expensive and they require a engagement over decades. Although Saddam Hussein has been eliminated, the situation is even more instable now as it was before. Nevertheless it was for sure a victory of freedom.
There are more wars to come. Where will France and Germany stand if there is a confrontation with Iran? What will be if Israel is in deep trouble?
I will be short at the moment.
France is traumatized by its numerous,recurrent and bloody civil wars,expression of self-hatred,since at least 18th century(i could speak of the religious wars particularly horrible and long...).You probably heard about Napoleon I,a son of the french revolution,well known in europe...The 19th century in France was a succession of civil wars and foreign wars.France (with Germany)was one of the main place for the birth and the fast growth of marxist-socialist ideologies...pretending,like the french revolution,to cancel the past(culture-civilization-religion)for a fake fantasmatic marvelous new world.
Finally ,at the moment,you should know that france collaborated with Hitler AND that communists were very powerfull after WW2(De GAULLE took them in his government).This explain a lot in french policy till now including a pathological guilt complex with the arabo-muslim world,an appeasement/compromise policy with communist’s totalitarianism,and a rethorical anti-american stance...after the loss of french colonies
Hi Lukasz!
Hope that polish President and PM will send back SARKOZY to franss quickly as he pretends to rule europe.
GO ahead POLAND.
Ulysse(france)
This was impossible to convince Kaczynski bros to change their mind about voting system at this moment. However Sarkozy presented himself not bad at all, he seems to be good diplomat. No comparison with Chirac.
That is SARKOZY and the arrogant france which needs to change hese views on the vote system in EU.
It would be perfectly fair if each european country had the same power or weight in the european government whatever can be the importance of the population
I like the Baltar ‘08 poster, there are far to many “Baltar” types in the GOP.
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