Posted on 06/08/2007 4:03:44 PM PDT by ButThreeLeftsDo
>>The cop got partially out of his car with his gun drawn,<<
Fire the cop!
Yep. Yep. And yep.
Let's forget that the guy was a cop and the "rules of concealed carry".. Howzabout just a citizen inadvertently showing? Do you draw down on him? I'd like a little more info, but it looks like you may have been in the wrong here.
Since you weren’t there, you will just have to take my word for things. I’m not given to panic, if I draw I have a reason.
That’s why I asked for a little more info. I’d be a little more understanding if it is someone who looks like a gang member, in a bad part of town. If it is a decent looking guy in a quiet part of America, that’s a different story. You have chosen not to give us those details.
Holy crap, I ran into one of these here in Ohio. Road rage, and I followed him into the police station. Talked to his Lieutenant and found out the SOB's status.
He looked pretty scuzzy. I would make the same call again.
“Yeah, in some areas it’s the “shoot me!” button.” HAH!!!!
That must be why guns are banned in Massachusetts and New York.
You were completely in the wrong here.
Cops should act like cops, 24/7, and look like cops.
Agreed, with the last part anyway.
I don't agree if the officer is undercover. He needs to look the part.
However, this officer displayed an attitude problem by pulling his weapon in a road-rage incident.
Most concealed carry citizens are far, far more restrained and capable with their weapons than the average police officer.
I read enought -— here the rules guys.
CREED OF OATH OF CCW OWNERS
5 Rules of Conceal and Carry
“YOUR CONCEALED WEAPON IS FOR PROTECTION OF INNOCENT LIFE ONLY.”
“KNOW EXACTLY WHEN YOU CAN USE YOUR WEAPON.”
“IF YOU CAN RUN AWAY SAFELY- RUN, RUN RUN!”
“DISPLAY YOUR WEAPON, GO TO JAIL.”
“DON’T LET YOUR EMOTIONS GET THE BEST OF YOU.”
Detail
5 Rules of Conceal and Carry (like a pistol)
1. YOUR CONCEALED WEAPON IS FOR PROTECTION OF INNOCENT LIFE ONLY.
Draw it solely in preparation to protect yourself or an innocent third party from the wrongful and criminal activities of another.
2. KNOW EXACTLY WHEN YOU CAN USE YOUR WEAPON.
The criminal adversary must have or reasonably appear to have:
A. The ABILITY to inflict serious bodily injury. He is armed or reasonably appears to be armed.
B. The OPPORTUNITY to inflict serious bodily harm. He is positioned to harm you with his weapon, and,
C. His INTENT (hostile actions or words) indicates that he means to place you in jeopardy - to do you serious or fatal physical harm.
When all three of these “attack potential” elements are in place simultaneously, then you are facing a reasonably perceived deadly threat that justifies an emergency deadly force response. Note that these conditions may be defined differently in certain circumstances. For example, a small woman may be justified in using deadly force with a handgun against a much stronger male who is unarmed and attempting to rape or kill her. For a male vs. male encounter the defendant probably would not be justified unless possibly if he was physically handicapped, elderly, etc. This is known as disparity of force.
3. IF YOU CAN RUN AWAY SAFELY- RUN, RUN, RUN!
Just because you are armed doesn’t necessarily mean that you must confront a bad guy at gunpoint. Develop your situation awareness skills so that you can be alert to detect and avoid trouble as much as possible. Keep in mind that if you successfully evade a potential confrontation, the single negative consequence involved might only be your bruised ego, which should heal quickly with mature rationalization. But if you force a confrontation, and it escalates into deadly force, you risk the possibility of death or serious injury to yourself and any friends, family members, or innocent bystanders that may be present.
Also you face the possibility of criminal liability and/or financial ruin from a civil lawsuit as a result of your actions. Flee if you can - fight only as a last resort.
Naturally, there are circumstances in which you may be able to flee but it would not be in your best interest or judgment to do so. For example, a situation that you could easily flee from when alone may be difficult to safely avoid if your family was with you. Also it may be a judgment/ethics call on whether or not to fight or flee based on what is happening to potential victims around you.
For example, a gunman may be threatening the life of someone else and not even notice you. If you leave the scene, and go call 911 and just wait for the police to show up, you may have to deal with guilt and emotional issues that result if the gunman kills someone. In contrast, if you intervene, then you may risk your own life. The gunman may have a partner, which you have not identified and involvement may find you outgunned. Remember that self-preservation, and keeping your loved ones safe should be your first priorities. Always remember to stay calm and quickly analyze the situation at hand. Use good judgment on how you will react to any given circumstance.
4. DISPLAY YOUR WEAPON, GO TO JAIL.
You should expect to be arrested by police at gunpoint, and be charged with a crime anytime your concealed handgun is seen by another citizen in public, regardless of how unintentional, innocent, or justified the situation might seem.
Choose a method of carry that reliably keeps your gun hidden from public view at all times. You have no control over how a stranger will react to seeing (or learning about) your concealed weapon. He of she might become alarmed and report you as a “man or woman with a gun”. Depending on his or her feelings about firearms, this person might maliciously embellish their story in an attempt to have your gun seized by police or in order to get you arrested. Even though your jacket only blew open for a moment, giving a brief glimpse of your gun, that person may tell the police that you were waving it around like a homicidal maniac. An alarmed citizen who reports a “man or woman with a gun” is going to be a lot more credible to police than you are when you are stopped because you match the “suspect’s” description and you are found to have a concealed handgun in your possession. Before you deliberately expose your gun in public, ask yourself “is this worth going to jail for?” The only time this question should warrant a “yes” response is when an adversary has at least both the ABILITY and INTENT and is actively seeking the OPPORTUNITY to do you great harm.
Also, remember that proper concealment of a weapon is more than just covering it up so that it is not physically visible. You want to remove as much as possible any signs that you are armed. For example, you would not wear a tight T-shirt that shows the lines of your gun printing through it, especially if that T-shirt has a firearm related logo or statement on it. Also, a black nylon fanny-pack or a photographer’s vest may, in certain areas or in certain modes of dress tell any half-educated person that you are packing a gun. It is also not usually a very good idea to let too many people know that you carry a gun. This fact should be limited to your immediate family and select friends who are “gun people” also. Please, for your sake and the sake of others around you - be discreet!
5. DON’T LET YOUR EMOTIONS GET THE BEST OF YOU.
When you are armed, you must realize that you just lost your right to initiate ANY type of confrontation that could possibly escalate into a violent encounter. You must now have a very mellow attitude on life and your fellow mankind.
You just lost the right to flip off the motorist who just cut you off in traffic. You have to ignore the scumbag who just “wolf-whistled” at your wife/girlfriend. If someone wants to pick a fight with you, you lost the right to respond in any way other than a kind, friendly manner while walking away. As an armed person you must be more likely and willing to avoid trouble that an unarmed person would be. You have the legal and moral obligation of de-escalating any situation that you are presented with unless you are faced by someone displaying all three of the “attack potential” elements. Carrying a loaded firearm among your fellow citizens is an awesome responsibility that is not to be taken lightly.
Remember, once you strap on your weapon, you must carry with it a great measure of discretion and judgment, along with an easy-going attitude.
An all-time great post.
Proving once again the old adage that “There is no situation that cannot be made worse by the presence of a police officer.”
My Uncle Bob was a 30 year veteran of a police force in suburban Cleveland. He was best man at my wedding 45 years ago. He served in an era when MOST cops embodied the now frequently hollow motto emblazoned on police units all over this country: “TO PROTECT AND SERVE.”
The last 10 years of his career were spent as the chief Juvenile Detective in his department. When he died, a number of the young men whose lives he had touched years before came forward to tell how his timely and sometimes tough-love intervention turned them around.
I know that many officers STILL try to live that creed today. I also know that there are officers out there who, despite the rulings by the Supremes that they have no obligation to specific, individual citizens (see Warren v. DC for some fascinating and frightening reading on that), would stand between one of us and a bullet – and have.
Having said that, I must also lament that SOME cops are “cowboys.” Too many are simply power driven megalomaniacs who would have dropped on the OTHER side of the law had their lives drifted a degree or two off the course they did take.
A rule I have always followed:
If I find myself in a bar or lounge frequented by off-duty cops, I leave immediately. Why?
1. They are armed.
2. They are ALWAYS right.
3. Many of them will be drunk.
“Coon Rapids Deputy Police Chief Timothy Snell says both drivers could have brought the situation to a better conclusion. “I think there were points in this incident when either side could have backed off,” he said.”
A guy pointing a gun at my wife would most definitely NOT be the time I would pick to back off. The “undercover” was lucky Mr Treptow was not a better shot.
Sure glad the DPC is spouting the typical party line. Wouldn’t know about how to conduct social intercourse without govreps teaching us how..</sarcasm>
Oh, well, I don’t live in Pennsylvania!
When one breaks the terms of their concealed carry permit, like exposing their weapon in public, their permit immediately becomes void, and that person then becomes a person in criminal possession of a handgun. At least dems the rules down in Louisiana.
Anytime a concealed carry permitee draws their weapon on someone, the police should be summoned to make a record of the circumstances of the event. If the police are going to be called you want to make sure it is you that calls them first. That was a recommendation by the career Swat police officer who gave me my CCP training. It was an all day event.
Stay safe, stay armed. S4T.
Your post needed bumping to the top. Good analysis sir.
“Well, they say that an armed society is a polite society. The average person will assume that this saying means that everyone will fear each other. I believe the exact opposite is true. A mature individual will understand that he has lethal force at his immediate disposal, and will thus endeavor to avoid trouble when he can. None of us who carry firearms regularly want to shoot someone. OTOH, if it becomes necessary to draw a weapon I believe the vast majority of citizens are even more careful about the application of lethal force than your average police officer is, because there are real consequences for doing so even if you are completely in the right and justified.”
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