"I TOLD you it is not Amnesty! Now pass the #$%^&* bill - BIGOT!!!!"
Posted on 06/02/2007 10:22:51 AM PDT by nj26
President Bush’s advocacy of an immigration overhaul and his attacks on critics of the plan are provoking an unusually intense backlash from conservatives who form the bulwark of his remaining support, splintering his base and laying bare divisions within a party whose unity has been the envy of Democrats.
It has pitted some of Mr. Bush’s most stalwart Congressional and grass-roots backers against him, sparking a vitriol that has at times exceeded anything seen yet between Mr. Bush and his supporters, who have generally stood with him through the toughest patches of his presidency. Those supporters now view him as pursuing amnesty for foreign law breakers when he should be focusing on border security.
Postings on conservative Web sites this week have gone so far as to call for Mr. Bush’s impeachment, and usually friendly radio hosts, commentators and Congressional allies are warning that he stands to lose supporters — a potentially damaging development, they say, when he needs all the backing he can get on other vital matters like the war in Iraq.
“I think President Bush hurts himself every time he says it is not amnesty,” said Senator Tom Coburn, Republican of Oklahoma, referring to the bill’s legalization process for immigrants. “We are not all that stupid.”
This week, in discussing Mr. Bush’s recent comments accusing conservative critics of the immigration legislation of fear-mongering, Rush Limbaugh told listeners: “I just wish he hadn’t done it because he’s not going to lose me on Iraq, and he’s not going to lose me on national security. But he might lose some of you.”
Such sentiments have reverberated through talk radio, conservative publications like National Review and Fox News. They have also appeared on Web sites including RedState.com and FreeRepublic.com...
(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...
Your sarcasm is clear. However, the facts are the facts and you are being evasive and maybe even a little histrionic in your reply.
“Any felony o Any three or more misdemeanors o Any serious criminal offense o Crimes involving moral turpitude (with narrow exceptions for certain misdemeanors such as those committed before age 18) o Violations of a law relating to a controlled substance”
Do you support the status quo? is this worse? and for years many stood by and watched this happen. Point your middle finger at California as they encouraged it.
Oh NO..I do my own homework. However, I do keep an open mind and read MORE than what the MSM and political pundits rant about...do YOU?
More from http://www.whitehouse.gov
Fact Sheet: Border Security and Immigration Reform Agreement Overcomes 1986 Mistakes
Bipartisan Proposal Requires Tough Border Security And Worksite Enforcement Measures
White House News
In Focus: Immigration
The Bipartisan Border Security And Immigration Reform Agreement Addresses And Overcomes Failures Of The 1986 Immigration Reform And Control Act. The 1986 Act failed because it gave a complete pardon (amnesty) to 3 million illegal immigrants as part of an automatic path to citizenship, did not provide the resources necessary to secure the borders adequately, relied on an employer verification system with only limited capability to detect ID fraud, provided inadequate penalties for employers who knowingly hire illegal immigrants, and made no provisions to meet future labor needs of U.S. employers in a growing economy.
In Contrast, The Bipartisan Border Security And Immigration Reform Agreement:
1. Does not offer amnesty to illegal immigrants already here; 2. Contains much tougher border security triggers that must be in place and operational before the Z visa and temporary worker programs take effect; 3. Requires that a sophisticated Employment Eligibility Verification System (EEVS) capable of rooting out fraud be ready to process all new hires before the Z visa and temporary worker programs take effect; 4. Substantially increases penalties on employers for knowingly hiring illegal immigrants; and 5. Creates a temporary worker program to relieve pressure on the border and provide a lawful way to meet our economic needs.
1. No Amnesty
Illegal Immigrants Already Here Must Acknowledge That They Broke The Law And Pay A Fine. In order to obtain a Z visa granting temporary legal status, workers in the country before January 1, 2007, must acknowledge that they broke the law, pay a $1,000 fine, pass criminal background checks, remain employed, and maintain a clean record.
Z Visa Workers Must Pay An Additional Fine, Learn English, And Meet Other Requirements To Apply For A Green Card, And Cannot Receive One Until Years In The Future. Z visa workers must apply at the back of the line and wait until the current backlog is cleared, pay an additional $4,000 fine, complete accelerated English requirements, maintain employment, leave the U.S. and file their application in their home country, and demonstrate merit based on the skills and attributes they will bring to the United States.
The 1986 Act Created An Automatic Path To Citizenship That Provided Green Cards After Just 18 Months, But Satisfying The Requirements In This Proposal Will Take Most Green Card Applicants More Than A Decade.
2. Strengthening Border Security
Tough Border Security Benchmarks Must Be Met Before The Z Visa And Temporary Worker Programs Go Into Effect. These triggers include constructing 370 miles of fencing and 200 miles of vehicle barriers at the border and finishing doubling the size of the Border Patrol since the President took office - a goal previously set by the President and already well on its way to achievement.
The Department Of Homeland Security Is On Track To Build 150 Miles Of Fence By The End Of September 2007 And To Build 370 Miles By The End Of Calendar Year 2008. Currently, about 86 miles of fence have been built along the border, with 64 additional miles planned by the end of September 2007.
We Have Expanded The Border Patrol From About 9,000 Agents In 2001 To More Than 13,000 Agents Today, And By The End Of 2008, We Will Have More Than 18,000 Agents On The Job.
With Enhanced Enforcement, We Have Already Seen A Tremendous Change At The Border. The number of people apprehended for illegally crossing our Southern border is down by nearly 27 percent in 2007 from this point in 2006.
The 1986 Act Provided Only About 4,000 Agents For The Border Patrol. By contrast, we will have more than four times that number of Border Patrol agents in place before the Z visa and temporary worker programs go into effect. In addition, improvements in infrastructure and technology at the border make border enforcement more achievable now than it was 20 years ago. For example, today, we have in place:
5,290 sensors on the southern border
687 night time cameras on the southern border
449 day time cameras on the southern border
1 Unmanned Aerial System (UAS) in Southern AZ
3. Putting A Workable Employer Verification System In Place
An Employment Eligibility Verification System (EEVS) Must Be Ready To Process New Hires Before The Z Visa And Temporary Worker Programs Go Into Effect. Employers will be required to verify the work eligibility of all employees using the EEVS, and all workers will be required to present stronger and more readily verifiable identification documents.
The EEVS Will Require Presentation Of A Limited Range Of Highly Secure Government IDs, Which Will Be Checked Electronically Against Federal And State Databases. When a worker presents an identification document to obtain employment, the EEVS will perform an electronic check against Federal and State databases. The Social Security Administration will be asked to confirm whether the name and Social Security number presented by the worker are a “match” in its files. Furthermore, the EEVS will use links to the U.S. State Department and individual State Departments of Motor Vehicles to provide employers with the digital photograph associated in government databases with the ID presented. Once employers have direct access to the original photograph associated with an ID, it will be much harder for illegal immigrants to fool them with fake documents.
The 1986 Act Relied On A Verification System That Did Not Have The Capacity To Detect ID Fraud. More than two dozen documents are acceptable under the 1986 system, and employers are not legally required to verify the documents’ authenticity.
4. Increasing Penalties For Employers Who Knowingly Hire Illegal Immigrants
Employers Who Hire Illegal Workers Will Face Stiff New Criminal And Civil Penalties. The maximum civil fine for hiring illegal workers will rise from the 1986 level of $2,000 to $5,000 for first offenders and from the 1986 level of $10,000 to $25,000 for three-time offenders. The maximum criminal penalty for a pattern or practice of hiring illegal workers will increase 25-fold, from $3,000 per alien to $75,000 per alien.
5. Creating A Temporary Worker Program
By Creating A Lawful And Orderly Channel For Foreign Workers To Come To America On A Temporary Basis, The Temporary Worker Program (TWP) Will Help Reduce The Number Of People Trying To Sneak Across The Border. The TWP will help meet our economic needs by allowing workers to enter the country legally on a temporary basis to fill jobs that Americans are not doing.
TWP Workers Can Come To The U.S. Only On A Temporary Basis. To ensure that “temporary” means “temporary,” workers are limited to three two-year terms, with at least one year spent outside the United States between each term.
The TWP Will Allow U.S. Law Enforcement To Focus More Of Its Resources On Apprehending Violent Criminals And Terrorists Who Pose A Threat To Our Security
The 1986 Act Failed To Address Our Economy’s Need For Immigrant Labor. Further illegal immigration was encouraged by this lack of a legal avenue to meet the labor needs of U.S. employers.
How in the world is anyone supposed to take GWB seriously when for 7 years he has done very little to deal with the problems on the border?
No thanks to Shamnesty, if the Fedgov could actually implement all of your massive C&P, why haven’t they done it already? So ignore ignore, then trust us?
I always liked Mountain Berry punch Kool Aid, not the bushie kind thank you very much......:(
Yet another C&P, with no commentary? I can do the same with a Manhatten Institute C&P, so let’s dispense with C&P’s and let me ask you, katiedidit1, how many illegals do you know personally?
Was the place better before 2000?
“I thought I smelled a whiff o’ the Potomac on a few posters here lately.”
You’re right.
“Barred from posting on “A Day in the Life of President Bush” threads”
Much as it shocks me to note this on FR; that may well become a Badge of Honor.
“... once the bill is killed and the borders are left wide open for several more years.”
Uhhh. Why does this bill have anything to do with enforcing current law? You don’t need a new law to enforce the old ones. You simply need the willingness to do so. It’s that willingness that seems to be in very short supply.
This bill boils down to the politicians saying that enforcing the current law (drafted as part of the last amnesty) is just too much of a bother. But if we relax the current law, then they’ll enforce the new one instead. Really.
“I guess some of us were right in the assumption that some posters who have joined us recently really ARE plants from the administration. With this revelation they can’t pretend that they don’t know why we are upset... Makes me wonder about some of the newer posters who’ve been so disrespectful when replying to some of my posts the last few days.”
There seem to be a lot of paid bloggers at FR. I suspect that many of the recently departed rudybots were paid bloggers.
“Frankly, it’s not that easy for an “operative” to move opinions here on FR. You can put up persuasive arguments and get people to think things over a second time, but you aren’t going to change their minds over something as basic as this.”
You’re right, but a lot of FR “bots” aren’t particularly bright. Nor are they all that good at debating, particularly in a forum such as FR where the mods aren’t likely to come to their rescue when they choke themselves on their own petard.
(It’s funny. At one time I actually preferred a more genteel environment for political discussion. It’s part of the reason why I waited until 2004 to become a FReeper. Several thousand posts later, I can’t imagine being on one of the more genteel sites.)
You know I’d LOVE to get paid for posting here at FR! LOL In all seriousness though, I’ll bet you’re 100% correct.
my only hope is that a deal has been made with the government of mexico who has stronger capabilities of clamping down on foreigners in their country so that no terrorist undocumented worker makes his way across with the aid of the coyotes.... my only hope, but i doubt it...
coyotes who do not want to see a fence will protect the openess of the border.
teeman
“1. No Amnesty
Illegal Immigrants Already Here Must Acknowledge That They Broke The Law And Pay A Fine. In order to obtain a Z visa granting temporary legal status, workers in the country before January 1, 2007, must acknowledge that they broke the law, pay a $1,000 fine, pass criminal background checks, remain employed, and maintain a clean record.”
Just curious if U.S. Citizens who are guilty of ID Theft/Fraud, & Tax Evasion will get be able to get the same treatment? For instance, those who commit ID Fraud; will they be able to turn themselves in and say, “sorry”, pay a small fine and go on their way? And if not, why not? Doesn’t our Constitution guarantee equal treatment under the law? Heck, the way it looks is that non-citizens will be treated ‘better’ than citizens. Where’s the justice?
Also, how in the world are the 24 hr. criminal background checks going to work if these people have had several aliases? Is the criminal background check going to include checks into possible ID Theft/Fraud, or just if they got caught? Also, what violations of law WILL trigger deportation?
As far as remaining employed; are they going to ask these people how they got their jobs in the first place or are their employers among whom have KNOWINGLY violated the law to hire them getting off scott-free with this bill? All the talk about increasing fines sounds good, but without enforcement none of it matters. What about penalties for employers related to Social Security Tax Evasion? Will all U.S. Citizens who have defrauded the S.S. system be able to turn themselves in and pay a $1,000 fine and go on their way. Again, if not, then why not?
I see the part about EEVS for new hires, but what about the ones already employed? They mention that this will apply to all new hires, but what kind of documentation will the illegal immigrants be providing — Matricular ID cards? Or is this paving the way for a new identity card?
Lots of questions remain as to how in the world this is going to work.
Enforcing existing laws, stopping the free welfare services for illegal immigrants, and deporting all who are caught by law enforcement committing crimes, IMHO, would take care of this problem by itself.
The Mexican government can’t even clamp down on the Drug Lords in their own country. I don’t hold any illusions that the Mexican government is going to help us stem the tide of illegal immigration. The more who come here, the more money pumped into their economy via Western Union.
Everyone I talk to about this thinks that something very fishy is going on with Bush. It’s very strange that any president of the US would believe that this is good for our country. I don’t get mad when liberals like Oberlman(?) trash him anymore- I’m beginning to think they are right.
I think illegal immigrants should be exempt from any future draft.
“Was the place better before 2000?”
I have the sense that everywhere was better in any year than in any subsequent year.
"I TOLD you it is not Amnesty! Now pass the #$%^&* bill - BIGOT!!!!"
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