Mormons say they are followers of Christ. They say that Christ has a prophet on the earth to help them find the truth. Mormons don’t blindly follow a prophet. They are admonished to pray to God to find out if any statement that affects them from their prophet is true or not. No one forces them to be Mormon, they may leave the faith at any time without prejudice. All they need to do is write a letter to their pastor saying they want to be taken off the rolls of The Church.
Theological relativism? Isn’t that exactly the standard that we came here from Europe to espouse. Aren’t we all all supposed to believe that our religion is the right one but that your religion has as much right and legitimacy as mine?
Some raw nerves are exposed here, I don’t mean to rub anybody the wrong way it is just that my experience with many different people of many different faiths shows there are a lot of very good people in this country and they are not all of the same faith. The Mormons seem to be as good as any of them and their religious standards are to be admired. I don't think I ever met a practicing Mormon that I didn't like, perhaps even admire.
As far as espousing abortion as a sacrament, I would trust an anti-abortion atheist before I would support a Christian abortionist regardless of how often the Christian took the sacrament.
“Comparisons to David Koresh are illogical. David Koresh said that he was Christ.”
Would you vote for a David Koresh follower who was still a believer? Mormons believe Joseph Smith performed miracles and he was quite Koresh like. So, if you are comfortable with that scenario, all power to you, but it creeps me out.
OK. You've bought into the notion that if you oppose someone's belief, that is "hatred."
So everytime a Republican opposes a Dem public policy, that is "hatred?" (Stop buying into the liberal notion that to oppose someone is to "hate" them. If you oppose your teenage son's drug habit or irrational behavior, and you take active steps to help set them straight, that is loving them!)
Allow me to clarify my Koresh comments for you. They weren't aimed at Mormons. They were aimed at you. (Don't use the broader context of the thread to dodge that).
I didn't bring up Koresh or Jones to hurl anything at LDS. I was responding to a very specific comment you made:
I have said nothing about whether one persons religion or political ideas are good or bad...
I was responding very specifically to your indecisive theological relativism implied in this phrase. Now if you don't believe what you said, if you think, after all, that it is important to assign assessments of "false," "poor," "not so good," "neutral," "better," "on-target," and "true" to various "religious or political ideas," then I take back what I said. (Perhaps I'm not weighing the full contextual nuance of what you meant; or perhaps you don't apply this in an absolute way).
Historic Christianity stands or falls upon character, veracity, reality and comprehension of Jesus Christ and how He lives (or doesn't live) in the lives of his followers.
LDSism stands or falls not upon Christ, but upon Joseph Smith. (Otherwise, there would be no distinctiveness, nor would there have been any need for a 100% restoration of the Christian church).
The LDS view of truth and its slam against the historic Christian church comes thru the eyes of one solo 14 year-old. (Don't forget that Joe Smith said that in his vision from two unnamed personages, he was told that "ALL" of the Christian creeds were an "abomination" before God; and that its professors were "corrupt.") Would you trust your full opinion of what every Christian church, every Catholic church, every Orthodox church believes and has believed upon what a 14 year old's "enlightened" opinion is?
Is that a spiritually sane thing to do? (I'm talking about exercising discernment here)
Mormons say they are followers of Christ.
First of all, the apostle Paul says there is "another Christ" (2 Cor. 11:3-4). The "Christ" they follow is a pre-existent spirit, they say, like you or me...whose difference is (a) mere birth order--having been first; (b) was twice made a son of God via Mary; and (c) died for Adam's sin so folks could be resurrected (his role as Savior).
Other than that, he was not the Son of God from eternity past. He worked his way up to godhood status. He's not an exalted God-become-man, but an exalted man-become-God. He was an elder spirit bro of Lucipher. Had you been "first" in that pre-existent spirit world birth order, you could have been Christ!!! He really didn't die for our personal sins or our rebellious nature...cause when we get to Mormon heaven men are subject to punishment for their own sins--not Jesus [LDS second article of faith: "We beleive that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam's transgression." The flip side of this belief is that Jesus wasn't punished for our sins--men will be...Jesus was simply punished for Adam's sin to release us to "free agency."]
OK. My neighbor says he practices Satanic ritualism in his basement. So that religion "has as much right and legitimacy?"
Some Native American beliefs include incorporating some peyote or other drugs for transcendent religious trips. "Hey, whatever turns you on?"
Many islands and even parts of South America have practiced head-hunting, cannibalism as not simply tribal warfare, but attach religious significance to it. How does that early rap song go? "Too legit, too legit to quit, yeah!"
And to finish it off, hey, I've got two just Dandy, Divine-Looking Tulips in my backyward covetous of your worshipful eyes and knees. Please come over and "bow down" when you get a moment. Then announce to all: "Yup, you know, C's Tulips is a fully legit religious vantage point of the world whom I highly respect and would ne'er say a negative word."
In fact, I think we need a dosage of FastCoyote's "godifying" sagicity implemented here. Then I'd like to see you "legitify" it.
No the early founders didn't say all religions were "legit." They didn't invite local Native Americans in to pray to the gods of nature prior to starting many of their sessions.
What they did do was not to foist historic Christianity & mandate subscription to any one faith or religion or denomination...even if most Founders "endorsed" and elevated historic Christianity with their very lives.