Posted on 05/13/2007 4:22:19 AM PDT by Kaslin
Why is the word “He” capitalized in my previous post to you?
What is God's will according to Scripture?
Wow, I thought this was a message board for people who embraced logic and reason. You're begging the question.
Can you scientifically give me an explanation for the existence of universal, invariant, abstract entities? I’m not asking you to explain if they exist, I’m asking you to account for their existence. We would both agree that they exist as we both can add, subtract, multiply and divide.
Exactly, we start from different places.
I say the Bible is true, you say it’s toilet paper.
In the totality of the billions and billions of people who have walked the earth, those people are isolated cases statistically.
Good. You understand there are no ETs and that Earth is a privileged planet. As far as things beyond the material, any thinking person would assume the supernatural.
Sorry for the confusion. I meant alone in the sense of being guided by some spiritual force. There is no rhyme or reason to the universe. You would expect there to be some sort of karmic cause and effect relationship if there was a spiritual force guiding us. If God did create the universe, he packed up his belongings and moved to the next town once the job was done. Why in the world would the supernatural be assumed? You assume based on what is known to you. The sun came up yesterday (data point), and the day before (data point) and the day before that (data point) and so on. Therefore, I assume the sun will come up tomorrow. Now, that may be wrong-- an asteroid could destroy the earth tonight-- but it is a reasonable assumption. I have no idea what data points you have access to that make believing in the supernatural a reasonable assumption.
How many billions of people have walked the Earth? How many murders have occurred? Rapes? Thefts?
There is no rhyme or reason to the universe.
So when someone cites shifts of light spectrum indicating the universe is 13 billion years old or so we can discount that because there is no "rhyme or reason to the the universe?"
[Speaking within the Biblical paradigm] God is certainly not 'perfect' according to the human definition (making no mistakes). Free will seemed to be the 'mistake' God made in creating humans. It makes me wonder whether there will be free will in Heaven. But what about Lucifer? Did the angels have free will? They must have. Free will seems to be the big mistake. It could be brain chemistry. If Heaven exists we will all be 'on happy pills', our brain chemistry changed such that we will not have or want free will - we'll be high and happy.
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Remember, I started out on this most appropriate of Mother’s Day threads at ALOHA RONNIE Post No. 114 with the words:
“Have no Fear, for you are all very dearly LOVED”..?
Therfore our discussion isn’t about Fear at all.
Just and only about LOVE.
One talks about the Universe and the darkness of it.
One asks why do I think GOD is LOVE..?
What if outside the darkness of the physical Uniivese one talks about ...stands only the Light of the LOVE Itself..?
For over 20 years now scientists have been saying that the further they stretch out to the edge of the physical Universe ..they touch things Spiritual.
Things Spiritual that do not control events for us but allow us to control them outselves through all that we already are.
Though steeped in lots of formal Religious training in my youth and early adulthood, I come to you now from Direct Spiritual experience only ..from my having LOVED and having acted that way during my life.
And from also having directly experienced real HATE in this world and the results of it in the Valley of Death known as a then Free South Vietnam’s IA DRANG Valley of November 1965.
Now, may I ask you another question..?
What if Hell were not a place, but a Feeling..?
What if when we finally see the LOVE Itself after our bodies pass away ...we instantly fall in LOVE with It for having seen it directly, with that same LOVE just burning in our hearts..?
A LOVE only to be completed for all Eternity if one’s Heart has already been filled with LOVE, a LOVE that comes only from lovingly doing for others while on the Earth..?
Or a LOVE unrequited by the LOVE Itself, if one’s Heart is empty of such LOVE instead..?
A fire of LOVE we feel burning inside that’s not to be returned by the LOVE Itself for all Eternity, an unbearable seperation Etenal..?
A real Hell, for sure..?
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No, I think it's a pretty good story book, with nice poetry and well developed characters and nice moral lessons.
An explanation for the existence of “numbers?” I’m not going to get into a Platonist philosophical debate about mathematics. Sorry.
Fiction, in other words...
"with nice poetry"
I must disagree. As poetry, Psalms sucks.
I am so sorry about your loss three years ago. I know someone who had a very similar experience.
In response to your question, I would like to recommend a book and a link to you. This man, Ravi Zacharias, is much more eloquent than I. This is one of his earlier books, but it is a great read for anyone - an atheist, agnostic, or Christian.
He has written several other books as well. He has spoken at Harvard, Oxford, Yale, Cambridge, Princeton, the UN, and many other places.
His audio addresses are quite thought provoking. I believe there is a two part series he has on faith versus reason that you would enjoy hearing.
Let My People Think - Ravi Zacharias
Take good care.
Thank you for the ping ALOHA RONNIE.
Well, atheism isn't new, but the world has changed and so has our understanding of it. In fact, some of Bacon's lines of argument against atheism have been rendered invalid by discoveries made since.
Two centuries ago, I would have been Christian for my whole life (even beyond the fact that I wouldn't have survived to my current age). So in a sense, there is a time-linked aspect to atheism...dogmatic and philosophic atheism has become supplemented by evidentiary atheism.
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Hope you are enjoying the waters here, fatima..?
The water seems to be just fine.
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AR
And Homer said, more than a thousand years before Paul, that the G-ds intervened in human affairs. The Christians better hope they are right, because if they are not, they will fulfill the will of Zeus, and spend eternity pushing the great rock of Sisyphus.
Oh, and they better hope they are right, or Allah will....
And they better hope they are right, or Krishna will....
And they better hope they are right or Ahura Mazda will...
And they better hope they are right or Buddha will...
And they better hope they are right or their Ancestors will...
See where this is going?
Well I have 3 Atheists friends and I can tell you we treat each other with respect.
You appear to confuse stories where these things occurred with encouragement for them.
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It’s been my direct experience in life that...
...each of us were sent here on the Earth to learn to LOVE and to be LOVED in return ...in our Hearts,
...and then to learn to LOVE Justice as much as we do LOVE.
Irrespective of Faith or lack there of.
I suspect and your atheist friends you’re doing just fine on all counts, fatima.
With your mutual LOVE & Respect.
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