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UK: Tour navy's £1.2bn super sub (paper given exclusive look at HMS Astute)
The Sun (U.K.) ^ | May 9, 2007 | TOM NEWTON DUNN

Posted on 05/09/2007 11:25:04 AM PDT by Stoat

 
 EXCLUSIVE 
 

Tour navy's £1.2bn super sub

 
Sneaky peek ... inside the super sub
Sneaky peek ... inside the super sub

1. Shrouded Propulsor 2. Upper Rudder Segment 3. Lower Rudder Segment 4. Starboard Hydroplane 5. Aft Anchor Light 6. Rudder and Hydroplane Hydraulic Actuators 7. No.4 Main Ballast Tank 8. Propeller Shaft 9. High Pressure Bottles 10. No.3 Main Ballast Tank 11. Towed Array Cable Drum and Winch 12. Main Ballast Vent System 13. Aft Pressure Dome 14. Air TReatment Units 15. Naval Stores 16. Propeller Shaft Thrust Block and Bearing 17. Circulating Water Transfer Pipes 18. Lubricating Oil Tank 19. Starboard Condenser 20. Main Machinery Mounting Raft 21. Turbo Generators, Port and Starboard 22. Combining Gearbox 23. Main Turbines 24. Steam Delivery Ducting 25. Aft Equipment Compartment 26. Watertight Bulkhead 27. Manoeuvring Room Citadel 28. Manoeuvring Room Isolated Deck Mounting 29. Switchboard Room 30. Diesel Generator Room 31. Static Converters 32. Main Steam Valve 33. Reactor Section 34. Part of Pressure Hull 35. Forward Airlock 36. Air Handling Compartment 37. Waste Management Equipment 38. Conditioned Air Ducting 39. Gallery 40. Fwd Section Isolated Deck Mountings 41. Batteries 42. Junior Rating's Mess 43. RESM Office 44. Commanding Officer's Cabin 45. Port Side Communications Office 46. Diesel Exhaust Mast 47. Snort Induction Mast 48. SHF/EHF (NEST) Mast 49. CESM Mast 50. AZL Radar Mast 51. Satcom Mast 52. Integrated Comms Mast 53. Visual Mast - Stbd 54. Visual Mast - Port 55. Navigation Mast 56. Bridge Fin Access 57. Junior Ratings' Bathroom 58. Senior Ratings' Bathroom 59. Battery Switchroom 60. Control Room Consoles 61. Sonar Operators' Consoles 62. Senior Ratings' Bunks 63. Medical Berth 64. Weapons Stowage and Handling Compartment 65. Sonar Array 66. Maintenance Workshop 67. Sonar Equipment Room 68. Forward Hydroplane 69. Hydroplane Hydraulic Actuator 70. Hydroplane Hinge Mounting 71. Ship's Office 72. Junior Ratings' Berths 73. Torpedo Tubes 74. Water Transfer Tank 75. Torpedo Tube Bow Caps 76. Air Turbine Pump 77. No.2 Main Ballast Tank 78. High Pressure Air Bottles 79. Forward Pressure Dome 80. Weapons Embarkation Hatch 81. Gemini Craft Stowage 82. Hinged Fairlead 83. Anchor Windlass 84. No.1 Main Ballast Tank 85. Anchor Cable Locker 86. Bow Sonar

   

By TOM NEWTON DUNN
Defence Editor

MAY 09, 2007
 
 
 
MEAN, menacing and devastating, this is the first of the Navy’s 21st Century super subs – and The Sun has been on an exclusive tour.

 

With a design more complex than the Space Shuttle, HMS Astute’s awesome abilities will take underwater warfare to a new level.

Incredibly, the £1.2billion, 7,675-ton beast could stay submerged for an astonishing 25 YEARS without running out of fuel thanks to power coming from a nuclear reactor.

While under water hi-tech gadgets purify sea water and manufacture oxygen and get rid of dangerous waste gasses.

The only performance limitation is the 98-man CREW because the stores will run out of food after three months — long enough for one-and-a-half trips around the world.


 

Sea shell ... sub being built
Sea shell ... sub being built
 
Then there is the Astute’s astonishingly quiet sonar signature, making the vessel almost undetectable under the waves.  

As Britain’s first stealth sub, she gives off less noise than a baby dolphin thanks to her extraordinary amount of sound proofing — despite weighing as much as 975 double-decker buses.

Older subs’ noisier propellers have been replaced by a multi-bladed “propulsor”, and the rest of the vessel has been lined with special rubber tiles that mute all internal noise such as TVs and radios.

Meanwhile, Astute’s own top-secret sonar system — the subs’ jumbo-sized ears — is the best in the world.

If water conditions are right, operators could pick up the QE2 cruise ship leaving New York harbour while sitting thousands of miles away in the English Channel.

Astute has devastating firepower and is the biggest attack sub ever built for the Royal Navy.


 

Making waves ... how it will look in the water
Making waves ... how it will look in the water
 
 

She can carry 38 Tomahawk cruise missiles, which have a range of 1,240 miles each.

A vital weapon in the War On Terror, Astute can use them to blast land targets with pinpoint accuracy in North Africa from off the coast of Plymouth, in Devon.

She can also fire Spearfish torpedoes in ship-hunting missions.

Navy bosses allowed The Sun an exclusive sneak preview as workers put the finishing touches to HMS Astute in BAE Systems’ massive Devonshire Dock Hall in Barrow-in-Furness, Cumbria.

Painted jet black, she towers a total of 12 storeys from keel to the top of the conning tower.

With a length of 106 yards and width of 12 yards, she is as much as 30 per cent bigger than her predecessors — seven Trafalgar Class subs — under the seas today.

With her revolutionary technology, the Astute Class packs double the punch of the current hunter-killer fleet too. On top of the two traditional roles of land attack and ship-killing, HMS Astute will also be a massive reconnaissance asset.

Armed with powerful sensors and eavesdropping devices, her invisibility under water means she will be able to lurk just a few hundred yards off coastlines.

There she can listen in to enemy transmissions and secretly land Special Forces teams.

In fact, her only downfall might be that she is TOO quiet.

Her position could possibly be given away because the normal sound of the ocean is louder, and her presence could be betrayed on a sharp-eyed enemy’s sonar screen as a black hole of nothingness.

Astute is the first sub ever to be built without a periscope. Instead she has an optical mast topped by an ultra-sharp TV camera equipped with long range thermal and infra-red lenses beamed to the captain by fibre-optic cable.
 

Sea phew ... awesome power
Sea phew ... awesome power
 
 

The mast is raised above surface level for a three-second, 360-degree rotation to tell him everything he wants to know.

The Navy has asked for four Astute Class subs at £1.2billion each.

HMS Astute — the first — is launched next month for a year of sea trials before being handed over to the Navy’s Silent Service in August 2008. She will enter frontline service in January 2009.

HMS Ambush, Artful and Audacious will follow.

The Astute programme has come in for heavy criticism for being three years late and a whopping £750million over budget.

But Navy submarine boss Captain Mike Davis-Marks said last night: “The Astute class of submarines will quite simply be unbeatable worldwide for many years to come.

“Astute will have a capability that will keep us right at the top of the Premiership of the world’s navies — the Manchester United of submarine nations. With our proud heritage, Britain deserves nothing less.”

 

Astute Facts

THE sonar suite has the processing power of 400 laptop computers.

Cutting-edge construction has been used on the Astute Class. On previous subs installing the engine would have taken two or three days. On this one it took less than six hours.

There is around 68 miles of cabling and pipework on board.

It has more than three times the displacement of the last ‘conventionally’ powered submarine (HMS Upholder) built for the Royal Navy.

She is able to carry more torpedoes and tube-launched missiles than any previous class of Royal Navy submarine – nuclear or conventional.

Bathroom fittings include five showers, five toilets, two urinals and eight hand basins for a crew of 98 – the commanding officer has his own hand basin.

The sub has individual bunks for the whole crew – and 11 extra bunks for “passengers”.

She can manufacture her own oxygen from sea water to replenish the onboard atmosphere.

Astute can also purify the onboard atmosphere by removing and disposing of waste carbon dioxide, hydrogen and carbon monoxide.

She can compact and store onboard all the food waste and garbage arising from an extended patrol so it can be thrown away on arrival back in harbour.

She is faster underwater than on the surface.

Sonar 2076 has the world’s largest number of hydrophones, which means it provides the Royal Navy with the “biggest ears” of any sonar system in service today.

A team of five chefs (one petty officer caterer, one leading chef and three other chefs) provide a 24-hour service to the hungry crew.

On a ten-week patrol the crew would be expected to chomp their way through, on average, 18,000 sausages and 4,200 Weetabix for breakfast.

Astute cost £1.2billion and weighs as much as 975 double-decker buses.

It can detect QE2 leaving New York harbour from the English Channel.

Astute displaces 7,675 tons of water, as much as 65 blue whales.

Astute is so quiet it makes less noise in the water than a baby dolphin.

It is the first submarine without a periscope. It uses a TV camera and fibre-optics.

Cruise missiles could pinpoint target in North Africa from Portsmouth.



TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; United Kingdom; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: astute; britain; england; greatbritain; hmsastute; military; navy; royalnavy; submarine; uk; unitedkingdom
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Commanding Officer HMS Astute Future Submarines Submarine Service Operations and Support Royal Navy

Commanding Officer

Commander M J D Walliker OBE Royal Navy

Mike Walliker was born in Wimbledon in 1964, and entered Britannia Royal Naval College in September 1982 after being educated at Oundle School.  Following initial training ashore and four months in the frigate HMS Londonderry, he went to Birmingham University to read French. During the university vacations he spent time in the Hong Kong Squadron and several weeks in both a US and a French warship. On graduation in 1987, he completed his fleet training in the frigate HMS Jupiter before volunteering for the Submarine Service.

Between 1989 and 1996 he served in a number of sea appointments including the conventional submarine HMS Odin as the Signals Officer and the nuclear submarines HMS Triumph and Talent as the Navigating and Operations Officer. From 1990 to 1992 he served at the Fleet headquarters in Northwood as Flag Lieutenant to Flag Officer Submarines.

Commander Walliker completed the Submarine Command Course, the Perisher, in January 1997 and was appointed as the Executive Officer of HMS Turbulent. During his two years onboard, the submarine completed a refit, a period of operational training and a deployment to the Gulf region.

In April 1999, he returned to the Staff at Northwood for a short appointment as the Special Operations Officer.  He was promoted to Commander in December 1999 and took command of HMS Tireless in Gibraltar in August 2000.

During his 28 months in command, the submarine underwent a lengthy nuclear repair in Gibraltar, a work-up and a deployment to the Atlantic Underwater Test and Evaluation Centre off the eastern seaboard of the United States.  During his final months onboard, the submarine conducted an operational patrol.

In January 2003, Commander Walliker was appointed as the Commanding Officer of the Submarine Command Course (Teacher) for two years, after which he took up an appointment in the Directorate of Naval Resources and Plans in the Ministry of Defence.  He was awarded the OBE in the Queen's Birthday Honours List in June 2003.

He was appointed to command HMS Astute, the first of a new generation of hunter killer submarines in 2007, joining the submarine in build, in Barrow-in-Furness. 

He is married to Charlotte, a former WRNS Officer. They have two young children, Lucy and Jonty and live in South Devon. His interests are varied but include travel and sport. He is a Liveryman of the Worshipful Company of the Makers of Playing Cards and a member of MCC.
 

Astute attack submarine

 

Astute attack

Britain's nuclear deterrent is to remain with the Royal Navy whose latest attack submarine will enter service late in 2006.

 

 
   

ONCE THE DECISION had been made that the Royal Navy should bear the nuclear weapons of the UK, the submarine took on an important role. While the Royal Air Force and the Royal Navy were tasked with nuclear capability, it now rested solely with the senior service. The presence of submarines has never been less than significant during their 100-year history with the Royal Navy. During World War II the submarine service came into its own and since that time boats have become increasingly larger and faster and now the latest name in the long line of famous classes is Astute. Three have been ordered with a possible three more to follow. Laid down by Vickers at Barrow-in-Furness on 31 January 2001 the first S.119, HMS Astute, is now being constructed by BAE Systems that took over the contract. The second Astute Class submarine will be S.120 HMS Ambush and she will be followed by S.121 HMS Artful. It was expected that the first of the type would enter service in mid-2005 but this date has slipped to late 2006.

BAE Systems has stated that the main reason for the delay has been lateness in completion of the design. This is an extremely complex process involving the integration of a staggering number of engineering disciplines and technical requirements, including selection of and contracting with a wide range of equipment suppliers. While the company accepts that this adds to the delay, for such a major engineering programme with safety-critical issues and challenging cost targets for build and in-service operations, it is always better to sort out these issue at the design stage because failure to do so could cause even greater delay in the build phase.

There may be a small delay with Ambush and Artful also, but everyone involved is working hard to minimise any impact on these boats, and they are still predicted to enter service in 2007 and 2009 respectively. Attack submarines originate from early studies of nuclear-powered vessels in the UK during 1946, long before other nations had considered such a propulsion system. Research and development in the war-ravaged United Kingdom was soon overtaken by the mighty United States and it was not until 1960 that the first British nuclear submarine was launched. HMS Dreadnought was a fully operational attack submarine and served for 20 years from 1963 before being decommissioned in 1983 and placed in store.

The success of Dreadnought led to other attack submarines in the Valiant, Swiftsure and Trafalgar class vessels. Currently five Swiftsure and seven Trafalgar class submarines are in service. In the former category are HMS Splendid, to be retired in 2003, HMS Sovereign, to go in 2005, HMS Spartan in 2006, HMS Superb in 2007 and HMS Sceptre in 2008. Trafalgar class submarines successfully replaced Valiant class vessels as they came on stream from 1983 to 1991. Built by Vickers at Barrow-in-Furness, Trafalgar essentially was a much-improved Swiftsure design, with better underwater capability and endurance. They are also quieter, an advantage achieved by covering both the pressure hull and all the outer surfaces with conformal anechoic noiseReduction tiles. Power is supplied by a Rolls-Royce PWR.1 pressurised-water nuclear reactor, two GEC steam turbines, two Paxman diesel alternators, one shaft and one pump-jet propulsor. Naturally, as the requirement for submarine operations has changed in recent years so the Royal Navy has considered the future of its fleet.

Following extensive studies the replacement of the Swiftsure class with a totally new design was deemed to be necessary. However, by 1990 it had become clear that unit costs for the proposed SSN-20 W Class would be in the order of £400m. When this was added to R&D costs and proposed reductions in defence spending were taken into account, the project was cancelled in 1991. Meanwhile, the study into the Batch 2 Trafalgar class submarines continued and it became apparent that further development of the Trafalgar class was the way forward. To differentiate between the Trafalgar class, now termed Batch 1 Trafalgar class, and the new variant, the name Astute class was chosen.

Astute is the biggest and most powerful attack submarine to be built for the Royal Navy and, under the Smart Acquisition Programme, is being built roughly one-fifth more quickly than earlier boats. It will have lower running costs and a smaller ship's company of 108 plus 12 officers. Although Astute will be 30 per cent larger than the Trafalgar class, the larger hull means it will be easier and cheaper to build and maintain. From day one the submarine will be capable of operating Tomahawk III cruise missiles as well as more conventional weapons. Astute also will carry SSM sub-Harpoon fired from tubes and Marconi Spearfish torpedoes or mines. She will be fitted with six weapons tubes and will have increased firepower compared with the present attack-class submarines.

FOSM Rear Admiral Stevens commented, "The services of SSN (Ship Submersible Nuclear) community has made a decisive break away from its cold-war emphasis on anti-submarine warfare (ASW) to embrace the Navy's new operational concept of Maritime Contributions to Joint Operations. The challenge now is to realise the full potential of the SSN across its wider range of taskings - operations in direct support of surface forces are becoming a far more important part of the submarine services operations."

"The introduction of new secure communications links will provide the improved connectability essential for operating in conjunction with other task force units. Advances in technological areas of digitisation, miniaturisation and processing of information gathered, will enable the submarine (Astute) to become an increasingly valuable asset in covert intelligence gathering operations."

HMS Astute is 97m long and displaces 7,200 tonnes, powered by a Rolls-Royce PWR-2 nuclear reactor, the vessel has an endurance of eight to nine years and a maximum submerged speed of 32kts. Conventional power will be supplied by two GEC turbines. To enhance the capability of the new submarine, navigational radar will be the Kelvin Hughes Type 1007. The combat data system will be the BAE SEMA SMCS and weapons control the Dowty Tactical Control System SAFS 3 FCS. Marconi Ferranti Type 2076 integrated suite supplies the sonar. Countermeasures will include two SSE Mk 10 launchers for Type 2066 and 2071 decoys and ECM Racal UAP 3 Passive Intercept.

The Astute class also will have fully reelable towed arrays rather than the clip-on type now in use. Other equipment is to be finalised and upgrades will be announced during the building programme. China, Russia, France and the US have SSN programmes, some quite advanced. However, because of a lack of funds many Russian programmes have been curtailed. Five of their improved Akula-Class SSNs were laid down but only three were completed and two partially completed vessels were leased to the Indian Navy during 2002. One of China's Han Class SSNs made headlines in 1994 when it approached the carrier USS Kitty Hawk in the Yellow Sea in October 1994. China is now busy working with a Russian design team on a new, improved vessel to replace the ageing Han Class.

Probably the most famous SSN is USS Nautilus. Commissioned in 1954 and retired in 1980 it showed the way. The current US SSN programme is well advanced with the Seawolf class, the latest in a long line. Twenty-nine boats were considered, 12 were ordered and now the figure is just three - two of which have been launched and the third to be completed in 2004. Unlike Astute the Seawolf carries around 50 weapons including Tomahawk, Harpoon and Mk 48 ADCAP torpedoes. Development of the Seawolf class has led to the Virginia class, a new programme now underway with 30 boats on order.

Following development problems, the first French SSN did not join the fleet until 1983. However, the Rubis and Amethyste classes have operated from their Toulon base for many years and have been subjected to major update rebuilding programmes. France has announced a new SSN programme, the new Baracuda class will enter service from 2010, but details are sketchy and apart from the fact that this new class will be larger than Rubis/Amethyste and smaller than Astute, little is known.

We have noted that India has on lease two Russian-built SSNs and are known to be developing a vessel of their own but details are not available and neither can reports that Brazil has, or will have, an attack-submarine programme in place. What is clear is that the requirement for such a vessel is more apparent than ever before and with programmes from the US, France and the UK underway, the SSN has an assured place - but at what cost? It is widely known that all the programmes have slipped mainly because of development parameters and available funds. None of the countries mentioned has unlimited resources, even the United States is feeling the need for economies as it attempts to police the world and to deal with a slipping economy at home.


1 posted on 05/09/2007 11:25:09 AM PDT by Stoat
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To: Calpernia; xzins; SandRat; Cannoneer; Ragtime Cowgirl; stockpirate; Darksheare

Seapower Ping :-)


2 posted on 05/09/2007 11:29:39 AM PDT by Stoat (Rice / Coulter 2008: Smart Ladies for a Strong America)
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To: Doohickey

Submarine ping :-)


3 posted on 05/09/2007 11:30:50 AM PDT by Stoat (Rice / Coulter 2008: Smart Ladies for a Strong America)
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To: Stoat

WOW


4 posted on 05/09/2007 11:31:09 AM PDT by DungeonMaster (Render therefore to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's.)
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To: Stoat

Totally awesome!!


5 posted on 05/09/2007 11:31:26 AM PDT by DarthVader (Conservatives aren't always right , but Liberals are almost always wrong.)
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To: Stoat

Room for 11 “passengers” - heh. I wonder why they quoted that word.


6 posted on 05/09/2007 11:32:14 AM PDT by coloradan (Failing to protect the liberties of your enemies establishes precedents that will reach to yourself.)
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To: Stoat

How do they compare to our best?


7 posted on 05/09/2007 11:35:33 AM PDT by Lazamataz (JOIN THE NRA: https://membership.nrahq.org/forms/signup.asp)
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To: Stoat

I think she needs a few more masts, snorkles, and periscopes on the sail.


8 posted on 05/09/2007 11:36:09 AM PDT by Yo-Yo (USAF, TAC, 12th AF, 366 TFW, 366 MG, 366 CRS, Mtn Home AFB, 1978-81)
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To: Lazamataz
How do they compare to our best?

Hopefully some FR sub experts will drop by shortly, as they would be able to give you a far better answer than myself.  Although I love learning about the technologies involved, I haven't served on a sub and so I wouldn't be speaking with any sort of authority.

9 posted on 05/09/2007 11:40:17 AM PDT by Stoat (Rice / Coulter 2008: Smart Ladies for a Strong America)
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To: Lazamataz

Our “best” is classified, besides nobody would believe it anyway.


10 posted on 05/09/2007 11:41:42 AM PDT by Eye of Unk
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To: Yo-Yo
I think she needs a few more masts, snorkles, and periscopes on the sail.

It certainly is quite a 'forest' up there, isn't it?  :-)

What was it that the wolf said in Hansel and Gretel?...."all the better to see you with, my pretty"

11 posted on 05/09/2007 11:44:11 AM PDT by Stoat (Rice / Coulter 2008: Smart Ladies for a Strong America)
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To: Stoat
Okay, gang, help me out here.

"Astute?"

What happened to names like Conqueror, Tireless, Perisher, Splendid, Dreadnought, and Sceptre?

"Astute?" How hath the mighty fallen?

12 posted on 05/09/2007 11:59:47 AM PDT by paddles
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To: paddles
What happened to names like Conqueror, Tireless, Perisher, Splendid, Dreadnought, and Sceptre?

From the posted Global-Defence.org article:

The second Astute Class submarine will be S.120 HMS Ambush and she will be followed by S.121 HMS Artful.

It appears to reflect a focus on high technology and stealth rather than brute power.  It could be PR or PC, to create an image of a "friendlier" navy....to an outside observer, it could easily look that way.

I tend to prefer the 'brute power' and "cudgel of death" themed names, but the Royal Navy didn't ask me when they were in the process of naming the vessels   :-)

13 posted on 05/09/2007 12:12:51 PM PDT by Stoat (Rice / Coulter 2008: Smart Ladies for a Strong America)
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To: Stoat

nice post. thks


14 posted on 05/09/2007 12:19:07 PM PDT by beebuster2000 (choice is not not peace or war, but small war now, or big war later masquerading as peace now.)
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To: All
Go UK!

Astute - Ambush - I love the names.

15 posted on 05/09/2007 12:39:00 PM PDT by bluetone006 (Peace - or I guess war if given no other option)
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To: bluetone006
I’m looking forward to HMS Cheeky.
16 posted on 05/09/2007 1:05:12 PM PDT by Eric in the Ozarks (BTUs are my Beat.)
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To: beebuster2000
nice post. thks

You're quite welcome and I'm delighted that you've found the articles to be worthwhile   :-)

I do believe that Admiral Lord Nelson would be beaming with pride for the modern Royal Navy, fitted out as it is with such magnificent warships and with such fine sailors and Officers.

As to the Sun article, although I'm accustomed to seeing primarily idiotic celebrity gossip on it's pages they have been a tireless and enthusiastic supporter of the troops, and every now and then they have a FANTASTIC article that shouldn't be missed, mixed in among the worthless sludge   :-)

A few examples of 'don't miss' Sun articles:

Brown hails Bush's war (Great Britain's Chancellor of the Exchequer delivers glowing endorsement)

Gongs for Britain's brave(Heroic Army Captain defuses bomb by hand under fire, awarded George Medal)

Great Britain Boffins to crack al-Qaeda (Codebreaking effort launched, much like 'Enigma' of WW2)

Great Britain Brown £20bn nuke pledge (Promises massive new nuke arsenal, upgrade)

Great Britain Don't Dare mess with us (HMS Daring billed as world's most advanced warship)

Great Britain Fallen hero set for VC honour (Inspirational story of heroism and dedication)

Great Britain Fury at Churchill statue (Former PM and beloved hero is in a straightjacket)

Great Britain Medal for hero minefield medic (George Medal)

Great Britain Remember them at 11 o'clock (Touching story for Remembrance Day)

I could have been anyone (Reporter breezes through airport security w-o being asked to lift veil)

 

17 posted on 05/09/2007 1:25:14 PM PDT by Stoat (Rice / Coulter 2008: Smart Ladies for a Strong America)
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To: Stoat

‘I tend to prefer the ‘brute power’ and “cudgel of death” themed names, but the Royal Navy didn’t ask me when they were in the process of naming the vessels :-)’

The RN has always named it’s craft with reference to their role.

The UsS Arleigh Burke, SS Beaver State, USNS Big Horn and USS Charlotte are hardly going to have the enemy soiling their undies! :D


18 posted on 05/09/2007 1:47:38 PM PDT by britemp
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To: britemp

All very true....the US Navy didn’t ask me for my opinion on vessel names either, unfortunately :-)


19 posted on 05/09/2007 1:55:35 PM PDT by Stoat (Rice / Coulter 2008: Smart Ladies for a Strong America)
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To: Stoat

BTTT


20 posted on 05/09/2007 6:00:32 PM PDT by steve86 (Acerbic by nature, not nurture)
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