They Shoot Mormons, Don't They? Religious Bigotry, alive and well today

Saundra Duffy

[red irish]

Rudy calls himself a Catholic,and being a Catholic, in no way would I vote for him. He has always been a staunch supporter of abortion of any kind,might try to spin it,but planned parenthood loves him. Anybody can call themselves whatever they want but people who are going for the highest office in this country need to be questioned on what they have done and said,especially in the past.But politics has become so ugly and vicious and has divided this country so very much.So many people have forgotten the horror of 911 and the terrorists said that we would give up because we love life to much and can't take the death of our soldiers.And the dems are proving them right.

[sevenbak]

Thanks for sharing. He sounds like slime. I hope he was exed as well for doing such things. That is usually what happens when crimes of that magnitude are committed.

[sevenbak]

...God put blacks on earth to represent Satan?

Color, you really should get a new hobby.

[sevenbak]

Sevenbaks answer: Women say prayers all the time in Sacrament meeting. The blessing of the sacrament is a priesthood function though, so no, they don't. It would seem your attempt to pigeonhole the LDS as discriminating would also work against the early Church. Are you sure you want to go there? The LDS do not hold these traditions like the early saints did, but you seem to be wanting us to go back to times of old!

Prayers in Sacrament meeting are different than "prayers over the sacrament." You know this very well and yet your answer was quite deceptive don't you think? Women are not and have never been able to perform the sacramental prayer (as greyfoxx put it - "over the sacrament") and you know it. Do you think it is honest to answer questions in a deceptive way?

Color, you are killing me! Again, where was I deceptive? Read my answer again, I made it clear. I talked specifically about 2 separate things, meeting prayers, and sacrament prayers. Here it is again, in bold so you cant' miss it:

"Women say prayers all the time in Sacrament meeting. The blessing of the sacrament is a priesthood function though, so no, they don't."

I didn't see an answer from you on the NT practices of discrimination BTW. How do you feel about the ancient Church keeping the women silent in the Churches, and only allowing the husbands to inform them on doctrine? This is exactly why I suggested you and others should go down this route, it is fruitless.

[sevenbak]

This is exactly why I suggested you and others should go down this route, it is fruitless.

Oops, make that SHOULDN'T go down this route.

[sevenbak]

I just can’t keep up, I need sleep. See ya all tomorrow night, I'm sure there will be another 200-300 more added to the 200 I didn’t finish tonight. (sigh)

[restornu]

What amazes me is someone who knows or should have known the true definition to LDS meaning and now assigns the traditional meaning is being disingenuous to me.

To do what a former member knew means they have to contort themselves to speak from the knowledge of the Trinity.

Because now they know what the meaning that the LDS use and the meaning that the Trinity means.

So trying to act ignorance of what the LDS mean and spin the Trinity terms is what I refer to a contortionist.

Myself as a convert I had little adjustment because as a former Trinty believer I only had to refer to the beganning of the Bible where it said in the beganning was the WORD and the WORD was GOD.

So the Lord is the author of all they vocabulary and the meaning of Father and Son has not changed because they are defining words of a family!

Jesus the only begotten had a Heavenly Family and enter earth with a earthly family!:)

[sittnick]

If you’re a Reagan fan, remember Reagan changed his mind on social issues, also.

It’s a mark of maturity to be able to look honestly at issues in the light of evidence and change one’s mind.

That is a disingenuous comparison. Reagan did not so much as change his mind on the abortion question as he did not realize how broad the "health exemption" would be. (Something akin to how medical marijuana has played out in CA).

More importantly, he tried to repeal the abortion liberalization law WHILE HE WAS STILL IN HIS FIRST TERM, canvassing personally himself. I remember Walter Mondale throwing this out in one of the debates. It is ONLY used by pro-aborts. Needless to say, even the California law was more restrictive tahan Roe v. Wade/Doe v. Bolton. Romney also had the advantage of witnessing 25 years of carnage first. He got to see where it went. He did publicly repent of his misjudgment before his CA reelaction.

Reagan's Christianity (nominally Disciples of Christ, I believe) was more generic and less dogmatic. Mormonism has clear moral guidelines, many of which I respect more than Mitt Romney did during his tenure as governor.

Finally, I respect and admire Reagan. I do not hold him as an idol or as an oracle. I can respect and admire somebody whose values were right before he turned 60 or tried to run for president (e.g. Sam Brownback).

[restornu]

Transcript
Covenants: Our Bond with the Divine Helping Us “Out of the Pit” Victor L. Ludlow
http://www.byui.edu/Presentations/Transcripts/Devotionals/2004_03_09_Ludlow.htm

Video
The Savior’s Covenant Teachings in Third... Victor Ludlow
http://byubwmv.byu.edu/edweek/2004/VLudlow04.wmv

154 covenants 37 are from the Savior himself!

[colorcountry]

I didn’t say it. Your Prophet John Taylor said it. If God tells a PROPHET that blacks represent Satan on earth, then as a Mormon you had better believe God said it....or wouldn’t that make Taylor - other-than-prophet.

Then couldn’t Joseph Smith be other-than-prophet. And what does that make Gordon B. Hinckley?

[colorcountry]

You were taking part in the practice of Millet. Answer the question greyfoxx SHOULD have asked.

You simply started out your answer with a dodge. To me it appeared that you were hoping most people wouldn't read farther than the first sentence. I am well versed in the many ways Mormonism presents its "truth."

Women say prayers all the time in Sacrament meeting. The blessing of the sacrament is a priesthood function though, so no, they don't.

[greyfoxx39]

How can you keep women in line if they think they can actually give healing blessings to their own children?

That rings a bell. Haven't I read somewhere that in the early church women did give healing blessings? What else do you recall that women were allowed at one time? I know the Relief Society was recently put under the authority of men after years of the women running it, right?

[tantiboh]

We’re a week or two behind because of the blizzard in January; we spoke chiefly about the Parable of the Unmerciful Servant.

[tantiboh]

“If you’er not open to being convinced, then why do you ever bother to open Scripture or listen to a speaker? Why do you tune into the weatherman if he may not “convince” you, for example, about your opinion of the weather.”

I’m not here to be convinced by you, Colo, nor am I here to convince you. I’m here to refute slander about my faith.

Like my fellow LDS Freepers, I don’t go around bashing others’ religion. I’m here to do what I can to protect the good name of my own.

[Degaston]

>> I am sorry in order to have a cover up you have to have
>> facts, and we are still wondering about the details I
>> think to say things like that, is only your opinion.

I believe the facts are clear that after the MMM that the priesthood quorums of the Stakes around the area of the MMM would cooperate with the federal investigators in telling the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. That’s totally unacceptable for a society that believes in obeying, honoring and sustaining the law. That’s totally unacceptable for a people who believed in upholding the US Constitution.

>> It you study history of the Church you will see a
>> pattern and what happen at MMM is foreign to the
>> pattern.

Oh I have studied LDS church history quite extensively. I’ve read just about anything I can find every written by or on or about anyone who has been in the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve. Just read up on what was going on in Utah in the mid 1850s with all the sermons on blood atonement and even the Law of Vengeance. Yes indeed the MMM incident was a one-time tragedy in Mormon history. But the games of coverup continue to this day. For example, they’re still covering up their plagiarisms of the Masons. And they’re pretending to no longer be racist yet they still believe as the most correct book on earth one that says some people got dark skin for being wicked and that some got lighter skin by becoming righteous.

>> So to blame Brigham Young when in the pass he follows
>> the pattern of trusting in the Lord is too accused
>> Brigham Young of not having faith in the Lord.

Brigham Young could’ve required the Brethren in southern Utah to cooperate fully with the federal investigators. He didn’t. The murderers got away with it. Only John D. Lee was ever held accountable.

>> I am convert and was converted by the power of the Holy
>> Spirit so there is nothing technically about it!

If you’re honest you’ll honestly examine what all those good feelings and spiritual experiences really mean. When did the idea get started that these good feelings are absolute proof that the LDS Brethren are right and everyone else is not unless they follow the LDS Brethren? Hmmm it comes from the Brethren. How self-serving this is. And as a result true believing Mormons will not have an open mind when it comes to science or truth. That’s why so many people have a problem with Romney. Personally I think he’d make a good President. But I can see why the mistrust is there.

>> Unless you are one of those who never had a testimony?

Oh yes indeed I had a very strong testimony of Mormonism.

>> Beware of Pride

I’m quite familiar with that talk of President Benson. If I’m wrong on Mormonism then I will repent. Not a day goes by that I don’t wish the Book of Mormon was true.

And that’s the real problem, having enough humility to accept that the Book of Mormon is fictional. The scientific evidence is pretty clear on this. Its no more factual than Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny.

[Degaston]

Correction in typing.

I wrote:

... after the MMM that the priesthood quorums of the Stakes around the area of the MMM would cooperate with the federal investigators ....

It should say:

... after the MMM that NONE of the priesthood quorums of the Stakes around the area of the MMM would cooperate with the federal investigators ....

Sorry about the typo omission.

[DelphiUser]

Bruce R. McConkie rocks.

Actually, it's in a book called Believeing Christ by STEPHEN E. ROBINSON

I should have attributed it when I posted it, Argh!!!

[greyfoxx39]

From my earlier post: Is it Christian belief that God wishes to "build up His kingdom on earth and establish Zion?" State your source for this

How about Daniel 2:37-45: (http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dan/2/37-45#37)

My question to you: Is it Christian belief that God wishes to "build up His kingdom on earth and establish Zion?" State your source for this.

Here is the pertinent clause in the oath: "do accept the Law of Consecration as contained in the Doctrine and Covenants, in that you do consecrate yourselves, your time, talents, and everything with which the Lord has blessed you, or with which he may bless you, to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, for the building up of the Kingdom of God on the earth and for the establishment of Zion.

Now, if you care to interpret this as referring to the Daniel source, go ahead. Other's interpretation could be that since it states "according to the Law of Consecration in the D & C, and the FIRST recipient of "yourselves, your time, talents, and everything with which the Lord has blessed you, or with which he may bless you," is the LDS church, the Kingdom of God and Zion just might relate to something much more recent.

I guess you would claim that "Zion" doesn't relate in any way to the mormon church either.

Which interpretation do you think the clinton/media crime machine will chose?

[greyfoxx39]

It's an open question whether Mormons have any bigger problem with this in towns or regions where they predominate than the other denominations have in their areas.

The question isn't open to those of us who spent many years in the areas that mormons dominate. My area was also heavily catholic, and I never heard of any KOC doings other than their charitable ones.

My father-in-law would not rent any heavy equipment to the local bishop because he caught him cheating on an earlier deal.

[DelphiUser]

When did the idea get started that these good feelings are absolute proof that the LDS Brethren are right and everyone else is not unless they follow the LDS Brethren?

It comes from God. My testimony was not given or even known about by “the brethren”. My first testimony from the Lord was clear and concise and could have come from no one else. Once you accept that the church is true, you see things with a totally different perspective than someone who believes the church to be false. Things that you have a hard time with, I take in stride without pausing, be cause, “It’s true isn’t it? Then what else matters.” (that ‘s from the last conference session)

If I’m wrong on Mormonism then I will repent.

Well, then since it is true, you’d better get started! (Do you see the difference that a different perspective makes?)

Not a day goes by that I don’t wish the Book of Mormon was true.

Well, my FRiend, you are in luck, because it is true!

And that’s the real problem, having enough humility to accept that the Book of Mormon is fictional. The scientific evidence is pretty clear on this. Its no more factual than Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny.

Man! Somebody sold you their perspective but GOOOOOOOD.

You cannot “Prove” the gospel is true, and you cannot prove it false. It’s designed that way. What, got to you? Somebody sold you some scientific mumbo jumbo and you believed it? “Science is the history of saying we were wrong” – Unknown. God told me it was true. I’ll take his word over yours, and any and every “scientist” in the room telling me that they have a test tube and proved the BOM false.

Faith, that’s what it’s all about. If you want to get “Scientific” then believing that some guy who died 2,000 years ago “Resurrected” and is going to let you into heaven is pretty far fetched, and what do you have to prove it? A book of Fables and that’s it. If you are going to go forward in faith from there, why stop there? Follow that same testimony that testifies of Jesus Christ and it will lead you to the Book of Mormon. If not, why be a Christian?

This is why I find one Christian questioning the faith of another (as is happening all over this thread) funny. Basically, it’s the blind men and the elephant all over again.

I am sorry you lost your faith in the BOM and in Modern day prophets, I’m sure if you ask it will be restored to you as has happened before.

Have a really wonderful day and my God lead you to the happiness he has prepared for you.