Posted on 05/04/2007 5:46:36 AM PDT by Saundra Duffy
“In general, Mormons would be doing Romney a big favor by not making his candidacy about Mormonism.”
I agree. The challenge we face here is that almost every time Romney’s name comes up, the following conversation ensues:
Skeptic: “Well I could never vote for Romney because I could never support a president who supports weird thing 1, 2, and 3.”
Mormon: “Well, we do believe 2, here’s why. But you are incorrect about 1 and 3. We don’t believe that.
Skeptic: “Oh, but what about this Mormon who said, “yada, yada.” Do you deny that this doesn’t support 1?
Mormon: “Yes, because you’re taking it out of context.”
Skeptic: “Now you’re just ignoring the evidence that’s right in front of your face....”
And so the argument commences. Pretty soon, names like non-Christian, bigot, cultist, polygamist, etc. start flying around.
It’s silly, foolish, and childish. It’s doing no one any good.
So what? I don't think God is going to hold sincere people accountable for doctrine that may or may not false. God is nicer than Christians are.
“Seven there were many admonitions on the other thread about personal attacks. Just a gentle reminder ;-)”
An appropriate reminder, greyfoxx. Thanks.
“Well, since Mormon bedrock principle is that all other Christians and Jews are an apostate abomination headed for hell, I think we know the answer to that one.”
This is untrue, and we’ve discussed it many times. Please listen this one time. We believe that God will judge mankind against that truth that the individual possesses. We do no believe that non-Mormons will go to hell. We believe that bad people - Mormons and non-Mormons alike - will be punished
who what where went.......:)
“They apparently thought I would not have the guts to respond.”
I’d like to hear that story sometime. :-)
“Has your church taught you that pride is the sin that leads to all other sins.”
You know there are two different definitions for the word “pride,” CC. Are you just looking for a way to pick at SD?
Interestingly, Italian has two different words that are translated to English as “proud.” It’s most useful distinction in that language. For example, when a parent is proud of his child, pleased with his performance, he will say he is “fiero.”
The Italian word for the sin of which you accuse SD is “orgolioso.” This is the pride that the Scriptures preach against.
It’s unfortunate that this distinction doesn’t exist in the English language.
I, too, am “fiero” to be a member of the LDS Church. It has brought great blessings and joy to my life, as well as a personal relationship with my Savior, Lord, and Friend, Jesus Christ; and my desire is to share that joy with others.
100% agreement, GWB. Thanks for putting it in words, if not concisely.
I guess you need a reminder about a key NT verse from Jesus: "You diligently study the Scriptures because you think that by them you possess eternal life. These are the Scriptures that testify about me, yet you refuse to come to me to have life." (John 5:39-40)
This is the big problem you have. You assume that Lord Jesus is only linked to folks by the institutional umbrella they have a membership in. You are in error.
You assume that mass priesthood=automatic salvation of some sort. I don't think any Scripturally based evangelical would say being a mere appendage to the body--no matter how orthodox--is what saves you. Too many LDS practically rewrite Eph. 2:8-9 to be: "You are saved by membership thru faith in Joseph Smith."
Surely you've heard the phrase, "God has no grandchildren."
Let's review the LDS structure: LDS general authorities tell LDS not to pray & communicate directly with Jesus. Apostle Bruce McConkie told BYU students in the early 80s not to seek a "special relationship" with Jesus.
The temple recommend may not really have ANYTHING to do w/evaluating a person on his relationship to Jesus. LDS belief is eternal life for everybody in the world except apostates & the real evil folks...as most folks may eventually escape spirit prison. But what does Jesus say: "Now this is eternal life; that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent." (John 17:3)
Eternal life is not membership in the LDS church. [As a matter of fact, Jesus said the tares are mixed together w/the wheat; and half of the virgins expecting to eternally related to Jesus in Matt 25:1-10 were "left in the dark."] Eternal life is not baptism by proxy. Eternal life or exaltation is not based upon what man you marry, or that you are married.
No, John 17:3 says the key relationship is w/Jesus. And everywhere you look in Mormonism, every relationship BUT Jesus is either frowned upon or substituted. As Jesus said, "You refuse to come to me."
“Years ago I read several books about Mormons and Mormonism and it is the history of the sect that is off putting. Joseph Smith found golden tablets from God and then he lost them before he could show them to anyone else? The members of his sect were encouraged to have multiple wives?”
Unfortunately, Ditter, those books led you astray. What you’ve described is a grain of truth wrapped in distortions. Would you like some resources that present the other side of the issue?
Being LDS, I’m only too happy to help dispell misconception such as these, for those who are interested in learning.
There is no difference in the King James Version which is the only “authorized” version by your Church.
I am surprised they even allow you to read the Greek, since you aren’t allowed to read the Bible in modern day English, but your point is taken.
Aything that puts you in a position of self-esteem or self- worth denies the glory of God IMO. The Bible tells us so. Even pride in being a Mormon.
Here are the definitions of Proud found on the internet.
1. Feeling pleasurable satisfaction over an act, possession, quality, or relationship by which one measures one’s stature or self-worth: proud of one’s child; proud to serve one’s country.
2. Occasioning or being a reason for pride: “On January 1, 1900, Americans and Europeans greeted the twentieth century in the proud and certain belief that the next hundred years would make all things possible” W. Bruce Lincoln.
3. Feeling or showing justifiable self-respect.
4. Filled with or showing excessive self-esteem.
5. Of great dignity; honored: a proud name.
6. Majestic; magnificent: proud alpine peaks.
7. Spirited. Used of an animal: proud steeds.
Unfortunately, Ditter, those books led you astray. What you’ve described is a grain of truth wrapped in distortions
Excuse me. Those are distortions? Read my tagline, please. Because those facts are certainly not distortions, they are FACTS!
“BTW, given Romney’s RECENT past, I expect the same thing from him.”
Regarding abortion, Romney has done several of the things on your list. The debate a couple of days ago was a case in point.
I agree with you in that I think that Romney should have been publicly pro-life all along. His explanation is that he has always been privately pro-life, and publicly laissez-faire. He has acknowledged this as effectively pro-choice, and recanted that stance on multiple occasions. I tend to believe this explanation.
“Mormonism is not what makes Utah conservative. Utah is conservative because it is a member of the Intermountain States and all those States are governed by individual rights.”
Utah is a whole lot more conservative that Colorado these days.
Mormons vote 90% Republican. If that’s not keeping Utah, Idaho, and Wyoming red, I don’t know what is.
Okay need I say the obvious? If you rarely or never acknowledge or communicate directly with Jesus or the Holy Spirit, you don't even have a trinitarian God, anymore. You have effectively truncated Him.
We might as well then whittle who God reveals Himself to be to the lowest common denominator, become either a unitarian or a Jesus-only Pentecostal (not all Pentecostals are Jesus only, just most of those in the United Pentecostal Church).
If it's never important to witness to Jesus, you take away the gospel itself.
Imagine, for example, all those who directly approached Jesus on earth for healing. I'm sure many of them had already prayed to the Father. But God chose to heal them directly thru accessibility to the Son. (I think of, for example, the woman who had an issue of blood, and upon just merely touching Christ, Jesus felt power drained from Him to her.)
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