They Shoot Mormons, Don't They? Religious Bigotry, alive and well today

Saundra Duffy

[sevenbak]

Hello.

So were you named after Jospeh Smith’s brother?

[sevenbak]

I feel like an idiot defending Romney, but leave him alone for being LDS. true conservatives won’t allow him to get the nomination, but uggh if it happens,I will hold my nose and vote for himm, and he will need to do a kennedyesc speech on religous tolerance so bigots stop persecuting people based on what religion they are. sheesh.

Thank you styker, well said! It's this very attitude that is dominant nationally, not the "millions" that will not vote for him because of his faith, which has been floated here.

[FastCoyote]

I am somewhere between Thompson and Hunter, anti-abortion, pro Iraq war, for closed borders, pro-nuclear energy instead of ethanol, limited government, low taxes - where I differ from the standard conservative is that I’d allow recreational drugs but tax and regulate them (let the states throw fines at public nuisances). Christian Lutheran. About to make my first million, self made.

And I don’t have a problem with criticism of Martin Luther’s flaws, he didn’t try to pretend he was som God in the making, though he was undoubtedly more inspired and had greater impact than Joseph Smith. Luther translated the first German bible from Latin, and unlike Joseph Smith no one thinks he did it looking through a seer stone. He never tried to elevate his catechism to the level of a bible either.

Luther is a parallel to Joseph Smith and no doubt divinely inspired by the same God you claim to worship. So, one of the two is a fraud. Either the educated monk who never claimed to be a God in the making, or your crystal gazing seer whose BOM has not a pot shard of archaeological evidence, is a fraud as phony as a three dollar bill.

Your whole religion rests really on the divinity of Joseph Smith. Rotsa Ruck.

[sevenbak]

Give it a rest FC. Jesus Christ, the only begotten son of God is our Lord and Savior, and we worship him with all our souls. Please don't tell me who I worship, I don't tell you that. Our doctrine is absolutely clear on this!

2 Nephi 25:26

And we talk of Christ, we rejoice in Christ, we preach of Christ, we prophesy of Christ, and we write according to our prophecies, that our children may know to what source they may look for a remission of their sins.

[FastCoyote]

[Of course Romney will not preach from the Presidential pulpit. No one believes that he will.

His high powered office, and the repetive use of Romney as an example and used for PR (just like the Church used the Osmonds, Gladys Night, Glen Beck, etc, etc) will be a way to legitimize Mormonism. This will cause great harm to Christianity that believes Christ IS God.

So by our voting for Romney, we are being unwittingly used by the LDS Church to heighten it’s religious standing and legitimacy. The LDS tells us not to use Romney’s religion when we decide our vote, will they in turn promise NEVER to use the Office of President to promote their Church?]

That sums it up quite nicely. Besides, Mormons never start out with the crystal gazing stuff or the God of a planet things, they always have to hide most of their core beliefs until their shoe is in the door (never shows up in the ads, does it?)

[greyfoxx39]

Today our nation doesn't fight a civil war, with brother fighting against brother," he said. "But we are plagued with brother fighting brother with handguns in university classrooms, drunk drivers in vehicles on the streets and highways, and hate-filled talk on the radio or in DVDs."

Boy, the comparison speaks volumes. Talk is as dangerous (where's that "free speech" thing) as being shot at or targeted by a drunk driver.

[sevenbak]

So, divinely inspired Prophet Young either was “mistranscribed” or was “misinterpreted”. For a bunch of holy guys they sure left a string of goobered up inspiration in need of corrective revelations.

Do you really want to get into a discussion of biblical prophets being corrected or correcting themselves later? That might be FUN! Be careful, what's good for our goose, may not be so good for your gander.

[sevenbak]

I thought they hadn’t decided on a time yet?

[sevenbak]

Sources please

[colorcountry]

Hilarious that a Jewish/Indian used the word “Christ” so often, since Christ is the Greek title for Savior, and wan’t even in existence until Jesus Christs time. Andyet you claim this 2 Nephi was written when??

Don’t you think perhaps a “true” Hebrew would have used the word Jehova and not a word that was unknown in his day?

And don’t you think (if you are to claim that Josseph translated the term Jehova into “christ” to utilize the modern English term) that he would have also done the same to words like curelom or adieu?

[sevenbak]

Romney says he wept when he learned of the overturning of the “rule” against black men in the Priesthood.

There were many many who did, including my parents. It was a long time coming.

[Don Carlos]

Scratching my head on that question.

My LDS roots go back to PP Pratt through my maternal grandmother, who BTW, was a sister to George Romney's mother Anna Amelia Pratt. That makes George R. and my father 1st cousins, and Mitt and I are second cousins.

Haven't ruled Mitt in or out on my vote yet. I'm sure the LDS bashing will always haunt his candidacy, and nothing he can say or do will stop it. Let's just say, if he gets through the primaries and gets the nomination, I will probably support him. I doubt, though, that I'll have to decide.

On the other hand, "Yo Mitt, 'member me your cousin Don Carlos?"

[colorcountry]

When Al Sharpton told Paula Zahn that blacks weren’t allowed the priesthood until 1978, she told him that cnn’s researchers claim that it was actually 1965. ???

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/05/09/romney.sharpton.ap/index.html

Perhaps the Church didn’t give CNN that information. I wonder where they got it? Do you have any idea?

[sevenbak]

Well said!

[MHGinTN]

Didn't you get the memo from the Mormonism control room?... You're not allowed to point out the gross lies and fabrications in Joe Smith's 'novel' because that's now politically correction defined as bigotry. You are not allowed to show evidence of the Smith scam with the B of M and his subsequent 'inspired' D & C which had to be 'edited' extensively within less than five years, to conform with the anassailable critical points of error in Smith's con.

CC, you must not defend Christianity or the Gospel of Grace because Mormonism is now a protected species of heresies since they tell people they have Christ in their name but he is the brother of Satan, and God the Creator of the universe needed a council of lesser gods to create the Universe since God was evolved from mere mortal flesh. Shhhh, CC, you don't want to be assaulted for pointing out the heresies do you?

[sevenbak]

Back to the basics color...

Galatians 5:

22 But the fruit of the spirit is love, Joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
24 And they that are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.

I think there has been far to many posts provoking one another, myself included. I'm trying to repent and not be so easily offended.

We could all use a little more fruit salad!

[sevenbak]

I’m sorry F15, Satan having the chance now to obtain salvation is not a quote from one of our own. Please source.

[FastCoyote]

I think we need to talk about the Urimm and Thurimm and the seer stone Joseph Smith pulled from a well:

http://www.utlm.org/newsletters/no95.htm

How were the Plates Translated?

Most Mormons believe that Joseph Smith translated the gold plates with what was known as the Urim and Thummim. Mormon Apostle Bruce R. McConkie wrote: "From time to time, as his purposes require, the Lord personally, or through the ministry of appointed angels, delivers to chosen prophets a Urim and Thummim to be used in receiving revelations and in translating ancient records from unknown tongues. With the approval of the Lord these prophets are permitted to pass these instruments on to their mortal successors… Because of the sacred nature of these holy instruments, they have not been viewed by most men, and even the times and circumstances under which they have been held by mortals are not clearly set forth… Joseph Smith received the same Urim and Thummim had by the Brother of Jared for it was the one expressly provided for the translation of the Jaredite and Nephite records." (Mormon Doctrine, 1979, by Bruce R. McConkie, p. 818)

Joseph Smith’s mother wrote the following concerning the Urim and Thummim:

That of which I spoke, which Joseph termed a key, was indeed, nothing more nor less than the Urim and Thummim, and it was by this that the angel showed him many things which he saw in vision; by which he could ascertain, at any time, the approach of danger, either to himself or the Record, and on account of which he always kept the Urim and Thummim about his person. (Biographical Sketches of Joseph Smith the Prophet and his Progenitors for Many Generations, page 106; also reproduced in Early Mormon Documents, Vol. 1)

On page 101 of the same book, Lucy Smith claimed that Joseph actually allowed her to examine the Urim and Thummim:

I knew not what he meant, but took the article of which he spoke into my hands, and, upon examination, found that it consisted of two smooth three-cornered diamonds set in glass, and the glasses were set in silver bows, which were connected with each other in much the same way as old fashioned spectacles. He took them again and left me, but said nothing respecting the Record. (Biographical Sketches, page 101)

Although Joseph Smith was supposed to have the Urim and Thummim, the evidence shows that he preferred to use the seer stone found in a well to translate the Book of Mormon. The Mormon historian B. H. Roberts acknowledged the use of one of Joseph Smith’s seer stones. He made the following statement in the Comprehensive History of the Church, Vol. 1, page 129:

The Seer Stone referred to here was a chocolate-colored, somewhat egg-shaped stone which the Prophet found while digging a well in the company of his brother Hyrum, for a Mr. Clark Chase, near Palmyra, N.Y. It possessed the qualities of Urim and Thummim, since by means of it — as described above — as well as by means of the Interpreters found with the Nephite record, Joseph was able to translate the characters engraven on the plates.

Joseph Smith’s father-in-law, Isaac Hale, noticed a definite relationship between the method Joseph Smith used to translate the Book of Mormon and the way he searched for buried treasures. In an affidavit that Isaac Hale provided we find some very interesting information:

I first became acquainted with Joseph Smith, Jr. in November, 1825. He was at that time in the employ of a set of men who were called "money-diggers;" and his occupation was that of seeing, or pretending to see by means of a stone placed in his hat, and his hat closed over his face. In this way he pretended to discover minerals and hidden treasure… Smith, and his father with several other "money-diggers" boarded at my house while they were employed in digging for a mine that they supposed had been opened and worked by the Spaniards, many years since. Young Smith gave the "money-diggers" great encouragement, at first, but when they had arrived in digging, to near the place where he had stated an immense treasure would be found — he said the enchantment was so powerful that he could not see…

After these occurrences, young Smith made several visits at my house, and at length asked my consent to his marrying my daughter Emma. This I refused, and gave him my reasons for so doing; some of which were, that he was a stranger, and followed a business that I could not approve: he then left the place. Not long after this, he returned, and while I was absent from home, carried off my daughter, into the state of New York, where they were married without my approbation or consent… In a short time they returned…

Smith stated to me, that he had given up what he called "glass-looking," and that he expected to work hard for a living, and was willing to do so… Soon after this, I was informed they had brought a wonderful book of Plates down with them… The manner in which he pretended to read and interpret, was the same as when he looked for the money-diggers, with the stone in his hat, and his hat over his face, while the Book of Plates were at the same time hid in the woods! (The Susquehanna Register, May 1, 1834)

David Whitmer, one of the three witnesses to the Book of Mormon, described how Joseph Smith placed the "seer stone" into a hat to translate the Book of Mormon:

I will now give you a description of the manner in which the Book of Mormon was translated. Joseph would put the seer stone into a hat, and put his face in the hat, drawing it closely around his face to exclude the light. A piece of something resembling parchment would appear, and on that appeared the writing. (An Address to All Believers in Christ, by David Whitmer, 1887, p.12)

In a letter written March 27, 1876, Emma Smith acknowledged that the entire Book of Mormon, that we have today, was translated by the use of the seer stone. James E. Lancaster wrote:

How can the testimonies of Emma Smith and David Whitmer, describing the translation of the Book of Mormon with a seer stone, be reconciled with the traditional account of the church that the Book of Mormon was translated by the "interpreters" found in the stone box with the plates? It is the extreme good fortune of the church that we have testimony by Sister Emma Smith Bidamon on this important issue… a woman… wrote to Emma Bidamon, requesting information as to the translation of the Book of Mormon. Emma Bidamon replied… March 27, 1876. Sister Bidamon’s letter states in part:

"Now the first that my husband translated, was translated by the use of the Urim and Thummim, and that was the part that Martin Harris lost, after that he used a small stone, not exactly black, but was rather a dark color…"

Sister Bidamon’s letter indicated that at first the Book of Mormon was translated by the Urim and Thummim. She refers to the instrument found with the plates. However, this first method was used only for the portion written on the 116 pages of foolscap, which Martin Harris later lost. After that time the translation was done with the seer stone. (Saints’ Herald, November 15, 1962, page 15; Emma’s letter is also reproduced in Early Mormon Documents, Vol. 1, p.532)

David Whitmer frankly admitted that he never did see Joseph Smith use what was later known as the Urim and Thummim (the two stones set in silver bows). This information is found in an article in the Saints’ Herald:

According to the testimony of Emma Smith and David Whitmer, the angel took the Urim and Thummim from Joseph Smith at the time of the loss of the 116 pages. This was in June 1828, one year before David became involved with the work of translation. David Whitmer could never have been present when the Urim and Thummim were used. All of this he clearly states in his testimony to Brother Traughber:

"With the sanction of David Whitmer, and by his authority, I now state he does not say that Joseph Smith ever translated in his presence by aid of Urim and Thummim, but by means of one dark colored, opaque stone called a ‘Seer Stone,’ which was placed in the crown of a hat, into which Joseph put his face, so as to exclude the external light. Then, a spiritual light would appear before Joseph, upon which was a line of characters from the plates, and under it, the translation in English; at least, so Joseph said." (Saints’ Herald, November 15, 1962, page 16) ***************************

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Joseph Smith was an occultist charlatan, phony as a three dollar bill with his name signed to it:

If I tried to pull off this much crap and then called myself a prophet they'd have me in the county jail for fraud. Then I could claim I was a misunderstood victim of religious persecution and a bunch of knuckleheads would follow me.

Of course, if Joseph Smith does it, he's a saint.

[Abigail Adams]

Saundra, that does sound strange that YWAM’s mission was to teach other Christians, rather than reach out to non-Christians. I can see why it left a bad taste in your mouth.

I would be curious to know how you decided you wanted to become a member of the LDS? How did you feel it was different from other churches? How did you decide that Mormon teachings were true? Maybe you’ve already answered this in other posts, as I haven’t read all of them yet.