They Shoot Mormons, Don't They? Religious Bigotry, alive and well today

Saundra Duffy

[colorcountry]

OH please do let me try.

It will start like this:

There is a tree outside in my yard. I call it Jesus Christ. God created it, so indeed it is the Son of God, as are all of us, and all other trees.

Once, all of its evergreen branches turned brown and the needles dropped off. He was dead. But suddenly, three days later, new life sprung from the branches. My tree named Christ came back to life!

There are those who believe my cedar tree originated in the middle east. It is said to have appeared mystically in South America (or perhaps upstate New York) in about the year 33.A.D.

We have no proof that this occured, but there was this guy who wrote a book claiming it happened. He was a stoopid, uneducated hillbilly, but he said he gazed in a rock, and low and behold, he saw the history of my Christ tree, and he wrote it down word for word. The story was inscribed upon a kryptonite disc that the aliens took away. The language on it was said to be Mormonized Yiddish.

Now you must accept me as a valid candidate for POTUS, since I am a Christian. Right?

[P-Marlowe]

Not that I’m aware of; but then, the LDS Church is unique in many ways. Still, it bears repeating that the LDS Church does not officially recognize the principle you describe as doctrine.

But you do agree that Joseph Smith (the Prophet) taught that, don't you?

And you do agree that the LDS Church has not repudiated that teaching, don't you?

And you also agree that the things that the LDS Church has taught you are entirely consistent with that "teaching" of Joseph Smith, don't you?

[colorcountry]

So you are a descendent of John D Lee, and I am a descendent of Govoner Boggs, kind of gives us a weird link huh?

Wow, and now we're on opposite sides. Perhaps God is giving us a chance to rectify the wrongs of our ancestors. It's all playing out right here on FR.

[DelphiUser]

The chaos that is this thread is as nothing to what ten years of a Romney presidency would become.

I think the chaos has already gotten to you. Please explain how he would be president of 10 years...

Unless you mean it would feel that way to you (grin)

[P-Marlowe]

FWIW, I am not interested in this DNA debate.

Thanks.

[Sherman Logan]

The Jewish people do not assimilate people easily into their culture, so it stays genetically pure. As far as markers go.

Quite true, with the caveat that there have been periods in Hebrew history when they were a good deal more free about intermarrying with "strange women."

Christ, for instance, no doubt had a good deal of "foreign" in his legal (Joseph-side) ancestry, as the Judean kings often married into foreign royal families for diplomatic reasons. This did not, of course, directly affect his genetic ancestry through Mary, by whom he was descended from David through a different line.

David himself had a a foreign (Moabite) great-grandmother in Ruth.

The laws of war given to Jews allowed them to take captive (foreign) women as wives, with their children being full Jews.

It does not appear that the Jews got really persnickety about interbreeding until after their return from Exile in Babylon.

[sevenbak]

You are diminishing Abraham into not much More than a common man.

Do you believe that he was a prophet, if so why or why not... or just that he was a man who had billions of progeny because God blessed him? (Patriarch)

[Sherman Logan]

Please explain how he would be president of 10 years...

Shouldn't have asked!!

Acording to the Constitution, as amended, a vice-president who succeeds to the presidency on the death or disability of the president can serve up to half a term and still be eligible for election twice. If he succeeds one day before halfway through the term, he can only be elected in his own name once.

So if Romney was Newt's veep, and Newt kicked over two years and one day into his first term, or inded second term, Romeny could serve two years in succession and still be eligible to be elected President twice, which would total 10 years.

You would not believe how I happen to know that!

[MHGinTN]

The case of the Lemba (the people in Southern Africa who claimed to be related to the Jews and were shown to be in fact related via genes) shows that DNA evidence can confirm Hebrew ancestry. The case of the inhabitants of the island of Madagascar (connecting them to very disatnt gene pool separated by thousands of miles of ocean) establishes that genetic studies can provide evidence of transoceanic voyages by ancient peoples - even when those people subsequently intermingled with other people of different lineages. [Important, because the poster claimed that the gene pool had been watered down since the imaginery migrating Israelites landed on the Americas.]

Studies of human populations on the island of Madagascar indicate a mixture of Indonesian genetic markers and East African markers. The Indonesian lineages have been traced to Borneo. This means that about 1500-2000 years ago, Indonesians traveled by boat 4000 miles across the Indian Ocean from Borneo to Madagascar.

[Source, if anyone would like to dig some http://www.wellcome.ac.uk/en/genome/genesandbody/hg07n010.html]

[DelphiUser]

I said”Yes, I believe That God was once a man and before time itself was started by him he “Became” God. “

How did he become a "man" before time began?

Why logically… you know where this goes and it’s a dead end. God does not say, but you can logic yourself in to an infinite regression trap if you want, but I tired of playing with regression games when I was 14. Been there, done that, got he Tshirt. You got anything else? ‘cause this is getting B O R I N G. You trying to set “Traps” that can be seen a mile away, me pointing them out and walking up and stealing the cheese anyway… B O R I N G

Was he a "man" on another planet who "became" God after going through a mortal test on an earth like ours? Gosh I think we may be moving towards some clarity here.

Yawn Have you ever studied the multiverse theory?

Now that’s infinite regression with something interesting about it.

Lets talk multiverse for a moment, (I hope you read the link, or already know waht the multiverse is) I have a theory that each universe is created by a God as he attains “God hood” and that each universe is a mathematical offset from the reality of his God, thus the Multiverse would look like a multidimensional tree with branches going in different dimensions and branches can overlap (being in different dimensions) with out obstructing each other this infinite possibility multiverse would allow for Gods to continue being created at an ever accelerating rate, yet theoretically never run out of dimensions and offsets for new Gods to create universes in.

You did want to know how Gods could endlessly replicate, and still be the “Creator", "God" and the "Lord of all" etc right?

I was a little bit of a math nut when I was 14 and had a formula for most of this worked out, then I lost interest, kind of like I am with this conversation.

You think you are being clever, trying to tie me into knots with Recursion, I think you are trying real hard to run into a corner and suffocate yourself.

[sevenbak]

I can tell you this, there will be an army of conservatives like me who actively campaign against Mitt. It will split the party just as assuredly as a Giulani candidacy. And all so you can slip your Trojan horse into a position of power.

If there was any evidence of this, you would have seen it in Mass.

[DelphiUser]

There are no Hebrew markers at all. None, nada, zippo, zero, big fat goose egg.

And that my dear watson is exactly what you would expect, did you read, or just respond without reading.

[P-Marlowe]

I think you are trying real hard to run into a corner and suffocate yourself.

Just looking for clarity. I think we've gotten a little tonight. Thanks.

[sevenbak]

That’s not true seven, ask resty, ask MGHinTN. I have been pretty much hounded here, to leave the Church.

Hounded? How so? I took you to mean that staying in the Church was painful and that the Church wouldn't leave you alone. How is my (and others) pointing out the way to officially leave hounding?

[tantiboh]

You’re asking the same questions over and over, PM. The only reason for that is if you’re trying to get me to give you a specific answer. If that is the case, I’m not here to oblige your desire.

I’ve answered your question, and I believe I did so clearly and forthrightly. I’m satisfied to leave it at that.

Best regards.

[DelphiUser]

Prove it Saundra. Go ask for the idol atop your church spire to be replaced by a cross - put Jesus first. If you do that, I will believe you are unashamed of the Gospel. Until then I think it is obvious you serve Baal.

Why on earth would we want to have a murder implement used to kill someone we love around, I suppose if your mother was killed by a gun, you’d hang it from your neck with a gold chain.

That is how the cross is seen by some Mormons. You won’t see them on our buildings, it has nothing to do with Baal.

[MHGinTN]

If the Israelites had mingled with Native Americans, there would be identifiable markers, as the Lemba discovery proved and the Madagascar discoveries proved even when intermingling is an issue. The way the Israelis make the connection is why there would be markers in Native Americans IF they had been mixed with Israelites. And you are corret, there is zip, nada, nothing to make the connection. But don't expect that to stop the Apologists from continuing to spin the matter. They desperately need the big Smith lie to be true.

BTW, the Israeli Genetics Society is meeting this July in Salt Lake City, around the 19th, I think.

[tantiboh]

“It does not appear that the Jews got really persnickety about interbreeding until after their return from Exile in Babylon.”

I’m not an expert in the topic; but if I recall, the practice of “marrying outside the covenant” was condemned since the Law of Moses was given. Such intermarriage was the root of the Samaritans, and the Jews disdained them for that very reason.

[sevenbak]

You never made it clear until recently the status of your husband, (at least I didn't see it) wither or not he was active, or as anti as you. So, no, it was not clear as to the situation.

[P-Marlowe]

The only reason for that is if you’re trying to get me to give you a specific answer.

Just trying to get some clarity.

Can I put you down for a "yes" on all three of those questions? I'm not trying to dispute what you believe, I'm only trying to clarify exactly what it is that you do believe. It seems every time we get close to getting a straight answer from an LDS member on this issue, they accuse the other poster of trying to lay a trap and then they refuse to answer.

So, just to make it clear what you believe, can I put you down for a "yes" on those three questions?