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To: EdReform

The fact that you base your whole argument on some email reveals its superficiality.

In fact, the bill - The “Denying Firearms and Explosives to Dangerous Terrorists Act of 2007” — would give the attorney general discretionary authority to deny the purchase of firearms (or the issuance of firearms and explosives licenses) to “known or suspected terrorists.”

Notice the phrase “known or suspected terrorists”

You may not think we are at war but in fact it is here.


336 posted on 05/02/2007 2:32:38 PM PDT by eleni121 (+ En Touto Nika! By this sign conquer! + Constantine the Great)
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To: eleni121; Carry_Okie; Lazamataz

The fact that you base your whole argument on some email reveals its superficiality.


Do you follow Second Amendment issues at all? The Second Amendment Foundation has been dedicated to protecting our Constitutional heritage to privately own and possess firearms Since 1974.



In fact, the bill - The “Denying Firearms and Explosives to Dangerous Terrorists Act of 2007” — would give the attorney general discretionary authority to deny the purchase of firearms (or the issuance of firearms and explosives licenses) to “known or suspected terrorists.”

Notice the phrase “known or suspected terrorists”


You'll notice that Lautenberg’s bill defines the term 'terrorism' to include international and domestic terrorism. So I ask you again:

Do you believe that law-abiding U.S. citizens can never be falsely accused and put on a suspected terrorist list by any government official who has an agenda or axe to grind?

What exactly is a 'suspected' terrorist? The article you linked to specifically states that the government's watch list (Violent Gang and Terrorist Organization File) contains not only the names of true terrorism suspects and their associates, but their relatives, neighbors or co-workers as well.

So then if my neighbor, unbeknownst to me, is on a terrorist watch list, but is an otherwise friendly fellow and I stop and say hello while outside, do I then qualify as a 'suspected' domestic terrorist if the FBI happens to observe me talking with my neighbor? Then what? As an affected, but innocent law-abiding citizen, I'm afforded an opportunity to challenge a denial to purchase a firearm made by the Attorney General? How much time and money will that take?

Again, do you believe that law-abiding U.S. citizens should be put on a terrorist watch list and possibly be denied the right to purchase a firearm just because they happen to be a neighbor or co-worker of a true terrorism suspect? Bill S. 1237 would give the AG the power to do that. Do you support that?

Alan Gottlieb's concerns are valid: Nobody has explained how one gets their name on such a list, and worse, nobody knows how to get one’s name off such a list. And his concerns are shared by Chris Cox of the NRA:

Excerpts from: http://www.nraila.org/media/PDFs/NRA_ltr_gonzales.pdf

"… The bill's only nod to due process is that it allows an appeal. Yet even that process is deeply flawed; denied buyers would have to appeal a denial based on "summaries or redacted versions of documents." That may be enough information to tip off a real terrorist about the government's suspicions, and it is not enough information for a wrongfully denied, innocent American citizen seeking to clear his or her name.

In the past, congressional sponsors of similar legislation have claimed it is akin to the government's "no-fly" list, to laws that screen visa applicants, or to laws that allow detention of suspected terrorists. The similarities are not reassuring, as those systems have many errors. Sen. Edward Kennedy (D-Mass.), Rep. John Lewis (D-Ga.), and then-House Transportation Committee chairman Don Young (R-Alaska), for example, have all been shocked to find themselves on the Transportation Security Administration's "no-fly" list.

And there are critical differences, which are no less troubling. When we block a suspected terrorist from flying on a commercial plane, or from entering the U.S. on a visa, we are not restricting a constitutional right…

As many of out friends in law enforcement have rightly pointed out, the word "suspect" has no legal meaning, particularly when it comes to denying constitutional liberties. The American people have no idea how many individuals are currently on terrorism "watch lists", nor the circumstances under which a person is added to or removed from these lists. Denying rights without legal justification, based on little more than "suspicions" and "secret evidence", is an affront to our Constitution and Bill of Rights…"



You may not think we are at war but in fact it is here.


The fact that we are at war doesn't give people like Sen. Lautenberg a pass to deny constitutional liberties to law-abiding U.S. citizens.

Food for thought:

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

--Benjamin Franklin, Pennsylvania Assembly: Reply to the Governor, November 11, 1755.—The Papers of Benjamin Franklin, ed. Leonard W. Labaree, vol. 6, p. 242 (1963).


398 posted on 05/03/2007 8:24:38 AM PDT by EdReform (The right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed *NRA*JPFO*SAF *GOA*SAS)
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