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Am I wrong? Any economics minded freepers want to chime in and tell me what is wrong with my viewpoint here? BTW this was in history class and not a economics class.
1 posted on 04/30/2007 3:43:43 PM PDT by aft_lizard
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To: aft_lizard
Am I wrong? Any economics minded freepers want to chime in and tell me what is wrong with my viewpoint here? BTW this was in history class and not a economics class.

The correct answer is: So?

Why does she have a problem with people getting rich? What you find out is that the think that the rich didn't earn their money and that they just take it from the poor.

But here's what really happens:

"the rich" are not the same people every year. There is in fact a huge amount of mobility between the classes, but that does not show up in the statistics. For example, some poor kid gets a basketball contract; that doesn't show up as the poor getting richer, because now the kid is rich, it shows up as the rich getting richer, when in fact it was the poor getting richer. Now, that is not a common scenario, but a small businessman making 60-75K per year jumping into the millionaires bracket for a few years is quite common.

Another thing to point out is that in a free society the gap between the richest and the poorest will always widen because there will always be bums at the bottom who will not work.

30 posted on 04/30/2007 4:19:13 PM PDT by Rodney King (No, we can't all just get along.)
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To: aft_lizard
Well look at it this way: The richer people are, the more things they can afford to buy. Mansions, luxury automobiles, private planes, yachts, recreational vehicles. And that's just the big stuff. Then you have wide-screen TVs, top-shelf audio equipment, fancy furniture, and on and on and on.

Well, it takes a lot of people to make, sell, install and repair these things. Take a yacht for example. A bunch of people get put to work making it. Then the salesperson sells it and more people are required to customize it for delivery. Then you need people to repair it and keep it in good working order. Not to mention a skipper to pilot it and depending on how large it is, a crew to sail with it.

Rich people also like to eat and dress well. Chefs and tailors are put to work. Upscale restaurants are opened creating even more jobs. Rich people like to build wine cellars so wineries thrive as well.

I'm just scratching the surface here. "Rich" people drive the economy. If our rich people ever stopped spending (or stopped being rich), our economy would collapse. Thousands and thousands of companies would be put out of business overnight.

I remember one family gathering years ago when a family member (one of those idealistic young people) went on a rampage about rich people who "flaunt their wealth" with their conspicuous consumption. Now ironically, she worked at one of those upscale clothing stores at the mall where even a pair of pre-ripped jeans cost over $100. I reminded her that if everybody decided to shop for their clothes at Wal-Mart or K-Mart so as not to flaunt it, that her store would be out of business. She didn't come around totally but she seemed to tone down the rhetoric a bit after that.

31 posted on 04/30/2007 4:26:52 PM PDT by SamAdams76 (I am 86 days away from outliving Curt Hennig (whoever he is))
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To: aft_lizard

You’ve got a lot of good answers. You’re certainly right that it makes no difference how much someone else makes. In the US, people are very mobile in where they fall in the wealth range. Grow up in a poor neightborhood and you can still make it rich. Grow up in luxury and you can end up poor. Compare that with many socialist countries, where income mobility is almost nonexistent.

One of the biggest benefits of great wealth is the concept of concentrated capital. Let’s say you have a great idea. Everyone you meet thinks it is a great idea, and knows your idea will make billions of dollars. Only problem is, you need $20 million is startup costs. Where are you going to get that money? Rich people, that’s where. Investment bankers who manage the money of very rich people and run around looking exactly for people like you. Try piecing together that much money in a country where every last person makes $40,000 a year.


32 posted on 04/30/2007 4:37:39 PM PDT by Toskrin (It didn't seem nostalgic when I was doing it)
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To: aft_lizard
You gave a good answer, and you have already gotten some very good comments. One of the best points made above points out the fallacy of the static model, the idea that the poor remain always poor, etc.

One thing to remember, the day the rich DON’T get richer is the day everyone starts to starve.

The rich pay most of the taxes, buy most of the goods, and hire most of workers in this country.

Poor people pay no income taxes, buy very few things, and hire no one. The poor drain the country of money and resources, the rich produce money and resources, which the government confiscates in part and redistributes to the poor.

Of course, the first thing to demand when someone brings up the rich is: Define rich. Teachers enjoy a higher retirement income than about 80% of the rest of the country. Government workers enjoy the best retirement of all for their income level. Teachers are rich retirees compared to most retired Americans.

33 posted on 04/30/2007 4:41:51 PM PDT by SaxxonWoods ("We're the government, and we're here to hurt.")
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To: aft_lizard
Today a teacher said that the rich are getting richer.

You migtht point out to her that the most famous time the Rich got poorer, was October 1929.

Of course that led directly into the glory years of FDR, 1932 to 1939. Perhaps she would consider that a price well paid to take a step closer to her envisioned socialist nirvana.

34 posted on 04/30/2007 4:42:51 PM PDT by Michael.SF. ("The military Mission has long since been accomplished" -- Harry Reid, April 23, 2007)
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To: aft_lizard
As the “rich” get richer, they put the money back into their businesses, which 80% of all business are small, and that is what drives the economy. Any business that grows hires the middle and poor classes thereby creating a “trickle down” economy. If you want to see what happens in a socialist trickle up economy look at Katrina. The poor who got $2K each blew it on porn, topless clubs and big screen TV’s. Just my 2 cents.
35 posted on 04/30/2007 4:55:10 PM PDT by IllumiNaughtyByNature (I buy gas for my SUV with the Carbon Offsets I sell on Ebay!)
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To: aft_lizard

Here’s a true story for you: quite a few years ago, when the huge fire happened in the hills above Berkeley, CA, there were comments made such as, “Who cares if a bunch of rich white people’s homes burned down”. Then, starting the very next week, there were articles about how “Juanita the housekeeper didn’t have work because the houses she cleaned had burned down, and Manuel, he didn’t have any gardens to take care of, and Jose the dry-cleaner delivery guy didn’t need to pick-up or deliver because there weren’t any houses or clothes left in the neighborhood, and gee, Freida the dog walker wasn’t needed, and Harriet the interior decorator could kiss those gigs goodby, and...well, you get the drift. Your teacher just doesn’t realize two things:
1. The ‘rich’ provide lots and lots of jobs
2. The ‘rich’ include folks that in her wildest dreams she wouldn’t recognize as ‘rich’. These include folks who live in small houses but happen to have stocks and bonds that they have slowly and steadily purchased over years, adding up to a tiddy sum
3. She herself is richer than anyone in her profession has ever been before, both in salary and benefits
The list is endless. And oh yes, by the way, does your teacher work year round? Does she read any self-help books about how to become ‘rich’ and does she, a teacher, educate herself on how to add to her wealth? Probably not. It’s always the ones who don’t make any effort to utter that ridiculous platitude. As you can tell, this hit a hot button with me. Tell your teacher to read the book “The Millionaire Next Door”. She might be surprised.


36 posted on 04/30/2007 4:58:46 PM PDT by hardworking (Being a rapist is one thing, but cheating at golf? Are you sure you want Bubba in the W.H.?)
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To: aft_lizard
Image hosted by Photobucket.com these chickenheads all blat about the rich like they will wind up with ALL the money like this is is a game of Monopoly or something...

the USA prints money EVERYDAY!!!

it's up to YOU as to how much or how little you get of it.

37 posted on 04/30/2007 5:01:39 PM PDT by Chode (American Hedonist)
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To: aft_lizard

If you want to see her apoplectic, tell her that you agree with Rush that the poor need to be taxed at a higher rate because they require more government services. After all, libs are supposed to believe in “fairness.”


38 posted on 04/30/2007 5:08:01 PM PDT by kittymyrib
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To: aft_lizard
BTW this was in history class and not a economics class.

In history, how many working class people have worked for poor people?

It has been my experience that working class people work for people who have money.

It is my experience that people work for people who have more money than themselves.

40 posted on 04/30/2007 5:31:36 PM PDT by jrushing (Anti-American-Terrorists-Cowards-Nazis-Communists-Soialists-Democratic Party)
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To: aft_lizard
The rich get richer because they continue to make the smart decisions, take the substantial risks, and engage in the economic activity that got them rich in the first place!

Ditto for the poor, but in reverse.

41 posted on 04/30/2007 5:35:39 PM PDT by Phantom Lord (Fall on to your knees for the Phantom Lord)
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To: aft_lizard

Your history teacher has a very narrow view of life. If you look at the whole world, all Americans are “rich”. Almost all of us have access to safe water and sewage systems. Our food problem is obesity, not starvation. Almost all of us have electricity, telephones, tvs and cars.
Even the American people who depend on the generosity of others have these things.
Ask your teacher why Americans who don’t work deserve these things while people in other countries can’t get them.


44 posted on 04/30/2007 5:48:14 PM PDT by speekinout
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To: aft_lizard
That one person or group grows wealthier does not mean that another grows poorer, simply because the economy is not a zero-sum game. Transactions that take place in a free market are by their very nature mutually beneficial, since each group is exchanging one thing for another thing they'd prefer more.

Think of all the wealth - meaning, to my mind anyway, the more convenient lifestyles we lead thanks to technological advances - that exists today. If economics is a zero-sum game, then why in the past were so many (actually, probably everyone) poor compared to so many today? If that were how an economy worked, wouldn't someone have to have been hiding away some great wealth, to balance out the poverty (as we'd call it today) of all the others?

Obviously, then, there is a general growth of wealth - and anyone who gets alarmed over one person or group getting wealthier at a faster rate than everyone else (esp. in the USA!) just doesn't seriously know or understand this fact.

48 posted on 05/01/2007 1:44:19 AM PDT by MitchellC
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