Posted on 04/27/2007 11:15:33 AM PDT by neverdem
www.gunowners.org
Apr 2007
"Another gun rights group, the Gun Owners of America, is adamantly opposed to the [McCarthy-Dingell] legislation. It said the measure would allow the government to trample privacy rights by compiling reams of personal information and potentially bar mentally stable people from buying guns." -- Associated Press, April 24, 2007 |
Thursday, April 26, 2007
This is going to be a knock-down, drag-out fight. GOA continues to stand alone in the trenches, defending the rights of gun owners around the country. It's not going to be easy.
Gun control supporters want to pass gun control within the next couple of weeks. And that's why, even if you took action earlier this week, you need to do so once again.
All the gun haters (who have been keeping silent for a while) are now coming out of the closet and into the open. Take the notoriously anti-gun senator from New York -- Chuck Schumer. He has been very, very excited this week. Recent events have given him a platform, and the excuse, to push legislation that he had sponsored years ago -- legislation that never got through Congress.
You see, Senator Chuck Schumer has been, in past years, the Senate sponsor of the McCarthy bill (HR 297). And the recent murders at Virginia Tech have given Senator Schumer the pretext he has been looking for. Appearing on the Bill O'Reilly show earlier this week, Schumer did his best to make a reasonable-sounding pitch for more gun control.
He told O'Reilly on Monday that while he and Rep. McCarthy had previously worked together on this legislation, he now wants Congress to take up HR 297 quickly. "The Brady Law is a reasonable limitation," Schumer said. "Some might disagree with me, but I think certain kinds of licensing and registration is a reasonable limitation. We do it for cars."
Get the picture? First, he wants the Brady Law strengthened with the McCarthy-Dingell-Schumer legislation. Then it's off to pass more gun control -- treating guns like cars, where all gun owners are licensed and where bureaucrats will have a wonderful confiscation list.
In the O'Reilly interview, Schumer showed his hand when he revealed the strategy for this bill. Because it could become such a hot potato -- thanks to your efforts -- Senator Schumer is pushing to get this bill passed by Unanimous Consent in the Senate, which basically means that the bill would get passed WITHOUT A VOTE.
This is a perfect way to pass gun control without anyone getting blamed... or so they think. We need to tell every Senator that if this bill passes without a vote, then we hold ALL OF THEM responsible. (Be looking for a future GOA alert aimed at your Senators.)
On the House side, the Associated Press reported this past Monday that "House Democratic leaders are working with the National Rifle Association to bolster existing laws blocking" certain prohibited persons from buying guns. Of course, there are at least three problems with this approach:
1. It's morally and constitutionally wrong to require law-abiding citizens to first prove their innocence to the government before they can exercise their rights -- whether it's Second Amendment rights, First Amendment rights, or any other right. Doing that gives bureaucrats the opportunity to abuse their power and illegitimately prevent honest gun owners from buying guns.
2. Bureaucrats have already used the Brady Law to illegitimately deny the Second Amendment rights of innocent Americans. Americans have been prevented from buying guns because of outstanding traffic tickets, because of errors, because the NICS computer system has crashed -- and don't forget returning veterans because of combat-related stress. You give an anti-gun bureaucrat an inch, he'll take a mile -- which we have already seen as GOA has documented numerous instances of the abuses mentioned above.
3. Finally, all the background checks in the world will NOT stop bad guys from getting firearms. As we mentioned in the previous alert, severe restrictions in Washington, DC, England, Canada, Germany and other places have not stopped evil people from using guns to commit murder. (Correction: In our previous alert, we incorrectly identified Ireland as the location of the infamous schoolyard massacre. In fact, it took place in Dunblane, Scotland in 1996 -- a country which at the time had even more stringent laws than we have here.)
McCARTHY BILL TREATING GUN OWNERS WORSE THAN TERRORISTS
HR 297 would require the states to turn over mountains of personal data (on people like you) to the FBI -- any information which according to the Attorney General, in his or her unilateral discretion, would be useful in ascertaining who is or is not a "prohibited person."
Liberal support for this bill points out an interesting hypocrisy in their loyalties: For six years, congressional Democrats have complained about the Bush administration's efforts to obtain personal information on suspected terrorists WITHOUT A COURT ORDER.
And yet, this bill would allow the FBI to obtain massive amounts of information -- information which dwarfs any records obtained from warrantless searches (or wiretaps) that have been conducted by the Bush Administration on known or suspected terrorists operating in the country.
In fact, HR 297 would allow the FBI to get this information on honest Americans (like you) even though the required data is much more private and personal than any information obtained thus far by the Bush administration on terrorists.
And all of these personal records would be obtained by the FBI with no warrant or judicial or Congressional oversight whatsoever!!!
Get the picture? Spying on terrorists is bad... but spying on honest gun owners is good. After all, this horrific intrusion on the private lives of all Americans is presumed to be "okay" because it's only being used to bash guns, not to go after terrorists and criminals who are trying to kill us.
As indicated in earlier alerts, this information could include your medical, psychological, financial, education, employment, traffic, state tax records and more. We don't even know the full extent of what could be included because HR 297 -- which can be viewed at http://thomas.loc.gov by typing in the bill number -- is so open-ended. It requires states to provide the NICS system with ALL RECORDS that the Attorney General believes will help the FBI determine who is and who is not a prohibited person. Certainly, an anti-gun AG like Janet Reno would want as many types of records in the system as possible.
The provision that would probably lead to the greatest number of 'fishing expeditions' is that related to illegal aliens. Federal law prohibits illegal aliens from owning guns. The bill requires all "relevant" data related to who is in this country illegally. But what records pertaining to illegal aliens from the states would be relevant? Perhaps a better question would be, what records are not relevant?
1. Please take a moment to communicate your opposition to HR 297 -- even if you already sent your Representative a note earlier this week. We have provided a new letter (below) which provides updated information relating to the battle we are fighting.
House leaders are talking about bringing up this bill soon. And Sen. Schumer (in his interview with O'Reilly) even hinted at the fact that the bill could come up WITHOUT the ability to offer pro-gun amendments -- such as a repeal of the DC gun ban or reciprocity for concealed carry holders -- provisions that could potentially serve as killer amendments.
Also -- oh yeah, this is going to upset you -- Senator Schumer told O'Reilly, "I got to tell you, a lot of NRA people, they support this." Can you believe that? Senator Schumer is claiming to speak for you! That’s why it's so important that you once again tell your congressman that Schumer is wrong... that you're a supporter of gun rights who OPPOSES the anti-gun McCarthy-Dingell bill.
2. Please circulate this e-mail and forward it to as many gun owners as you can.
CONTACT INFORMATION: You can visit the Gun Owners Legislative Action Center to send your Representative the pre-written e-mail message below. And, you can call your Representative toll-free at 1-877-762-8762.
Dear Representative:
As a supporter of Second Amendment rights, I do NOT support HR 297, the NICS Improvement Act. I hope that you will OPPOSE this bill and urge your party leadership to either kill it outright or to allow other pro-gun amendments to be offered (repeal of the DC gun ban, reciprocity for concealed carry holders, etc.).
In its current form, HR 297 will treat gun owners even worse than terrorists, giving the FBI a mountain of private information on law-abiding Americans like me.
How is it that, despite all the criticism over the Bush administration's attempts to obtain personal information on suspected terrorists without a court order, this bill would allow the FBI to obtain massive amounts of information on ME -- information which dwarfs any warrantless searches (or wiretaps) that have been conducted by the Bush Administration on known or suspected terrorists operating in the country.
And all of this personal information would be obtained by the FBI with no warrant or judicial or Congressional oversight whatsoever!!!
How is it that spying on terrorists is bad, but spying on honest gun owners is good?
Again, I hope that you will oppose HR 297. Gun Owners of America will continue to keep me informed on the progress of this bill. Thank you.
Sincerely,
Streaming Video Update
It's an ongoing process of getting permissions, obtaining source discs, and formatting files, but we are continuing to post videos of GOA spokesmen on television as they become available. Please stop by our streaming video section to see what's new this week.
I agree, and I don’t think I ever thought that what you teach your kids about this issue was not worth the effort, nor should their rights be at risk to lose...
Are you thinking that I am ok with this bill moving forward??? Or passing into law???
Is there something that I have not established with you personally about my stance on our right to keep and bear arms???
I can’t believe this...
Steve,
This is nothing against you. Your original post asked where the fire is and I am trying to explain to all on the thread who don’t know where it is; where it is.
Simply that they have the nerve to move on this issue lets me know that they think they have a shot at it someday.
When a crow trys to steal another crows food he doesn’t just shoo him away. He trys to peck his eyes out; to kill him.
No mercy for the crow and no mercy for these traitorous lib dims.
I refuse to obey immoral laws. FMCDH you tyrants. Just try it.
Sorry Tom...I understand now...You just caught me a bit off guard...
Maybe we should know that we should not expect anything but continued attacks upon this right, and you are correct in keeping the pressure up on those who could effect it...
We as individuals can only do so much...But it does make a difference, you champion it more than some and I will never take that effort lightly...
Yes, it is gastly that this has been floated up for consideration considering the flux for this is that the blood is not even dry upon a real tragedy in Virginia, and these gomers are pushing this up on the agenda...
I just don’t think I am wrong when I predict that this may not go very far...And if I am wrong...Well shoot...We got big heap troubles coming kemosabe...
But we know what we may have to do at that time...We will certainly do what we can to fight it before it gets that bad, right???
Oh for pete’s sake. Just have all these libertarians and Const. Party guys and gals remember to vote Pub in ‘08. This bill will never get just a voice vote. McConnell is too smart for that. Why do you think Byrd has run the joint for so long? He knows the rules of the Senate.
people visit shrinks because they have eating disorders,are afraid to fly,or wash their hands 800 times a day-i don’t think they will be denied gun ownership-i believe the NRA will make sure it only applies to dangerous psychotics who have been found dangerous by a court after due process-i am a no compromise gun rights advocate but paranoid schizophrenics with violent tendencies shouldn’t be armed, likewise illegal aliens and convicted felons-schumer better not try to tack on extras-if he ate some bad dog food it wouldn’t cause me to shed a tear-mccarthy is an idiot who acts like she’s the only person in this country who had a relative murdered-the european trash media has been making remarks about our gun culture-how about the fact that the euro-pigs have been arming the third world for decades and making obscene profits at it?that’s how they can afford smelly cheese and kiddie porn and all the other wonderful stuff in their degenerate societies-now is the time to get all the ammo you can-5.56mm amd .308 are becoming scarce due to military demand-i hear that even 7.62x39 is going to rise in price soon
Just explaining how the leftist media will try to spin this thing.
You have two approaches to this issue. The GOA standpoint where they say taking away guns from ANYONE is a bad thing and the NRA saying public opinion isn’t with us on this one so let’s try to minimize the damage.
It’s not that the republicans got trounced - it’s that the dims won!
All the results of the last election showed professional politicians is that liberalism WINS. It must be what the people want because that’s what they voted for.
Idealistic people don’t get into politics anymore. Who would want to subject their families to the endless smears, the years of what the msm has put Bush through?
Reality is, you take the best you can get and keep the pressure on. You vote for the least liberal and then ride his butt - you NEVER give power to the Pelosis, Reids, Schumers etc.
Much as I disagree with Bush on borders and illegals, he did bring us lower taxes, better Supreme Court appointments and except for the borders is very serious about the WOT.
We would have had none of that with the libs in power now. And we may get gun control, higher taxes, and the return of the “fairness doctrine” aka muzzling of conservative talk radio. Libs are talking about doing all of that and more.
I know you are convinced you are right, but hopefully these posts will show others how dangerous your thinking is.
Supporting the bill, or at least some provisions of it. (Notice they never mention any particular bill, as examples of what they are for and what against.
Given a choice between the Republican Charles Manson or the Democrat John Wayne Gacey who do you recommend?
Using your “logic” this type of choice is possible.
Do we really want to go here?
Should have pinged you to #71.
You think if it comes to confiscation of firearms "registered" on 4473s, they are going to *believe* that you sold them all?
Heck if nothing else they'll sick the IRS on you for "unreported income", that being the way their forefathers, the "Untouchables" (direct ancestors of todays BATFE, they had to have something to do after prohibition was repealed), got Alphonse Capone.
And anyone, dangerously psychotic paranoid schizophrenics or not, who is setting off to kill someone, or lots of someones, is not going to be deterred by some "law". They'll find a way to get a firearm, or just use easily obtainable high energy materials, like gasoline, fertilizer and fuel, TATP, or what have you. The only ones affected by this sort of law will be the law abiding, just like other gun control laws.
Cho, the ostensible trigger for the new consideration of this law (which was proposed *before* the VaTech rampage), planned his actions quite well. The first two murders were likely a distraction to suck to the police over to that side of campus, giving him more time to "make his bones" by killing a whole bunch more a couple of hours later. He had most of the materials he mailed to MSNBC during those couple of hours, already made up. If he could not have gotten his Glock at a gun store, he'd have found a way to buy one on the street. (His hometown, that is where his parents lived, is closer to DC than to the VaTech campus, and you know he could get one in that area, no background check required. But even if he couldn't or didn't go that route, he still would have found a way to his 15 minutes of fame.
He probably would have tried to take the whole building down, and killed even more. And still, as after OK City, there would have been calls for more gun control. (No one ever said that gun grabbers were logical).
No that is your “logic”. You are saying there is no difference: Manson v. Gacey.
I have pointed out the difference:
“Much as I disagree with Bush on borders and illegals, he did bring us lower taxes, better Supreme Court appointments and except for the borders is very serious about the WOT.
We would have had none of that with the libs in power now. And we may get gun control, higher taxes, and the return of the “fairness doctrine” aka muzzling of conservative talk radio. Libs are talking about doing all of that and more.”
If you really can’t see the difference, you aren’t even trying. And my examples are actual events/situations that happened.
Thanks for allowing me to make my point again.
I'm more than willing to vote for a conservative when one runs for office..
But I haven't seen any lately..
And, until I do, I pass..
Vote RINO, and let them know who the real idiots are!!
I don’t like gun legislation at all-don’t get me wrong,but as I understand this the law already exists and has for a long time-this just makes involuntary commitments available on a background check-I agree Cho would’ve gotten to carry out his plan whether or not he could legally purchase a firearm-the worst school killing in US history was carried out in 1927 in Holland,Michigan using dynamite-the killer was a man named Keogh(sp?)-48 ,mostly young children were killed-a determined crazy will find a way-my personal attitude about GOA vs.NRA is that NRA(i am a member)has been in the fight a good long while and I don’t think they’re sellouts as some in GOA have alleged-I respect anyone’s choice of pro-gun group,but I’d as soon “dance with the one that brung ya”
When you read your own response in the morning you might regret your last line, because you didn't. You didn't touch my point either.
There is more of a difference between Manson and Gacey than between Rudy and Hillary. Further, I will not hold my nose and vote for any one of the four.
Let me know if you still don't understand my point.
“Giuliani: Gun Control has ‘No Effect on Hunters’
Rudy Giuliani addressed a potentially troublesome issue with conservative voters, saying his policies as mayor to get handguns off the street helped reduce crime in New York.
“I used gun control as mayor,” he said at a news conference Saturday during a swing through California. But “I understand the Second Amendment. I understand the right to bear arms.”
He said what he did as mayor would have no effect on hunting.”
Matches your tagline. At least Manson doesn’t want to take my guns like both Julie and Hillary. I still cannot vote for Manson. Even though he has had fewer people killed than Bill Clinton and has murdered fewer than Teddy Kennedy.
This is why I will not vote for a RINO. There really is no difference of value.
I tried to stop this GOA against the NRA stuff since I’ve been a member of FR. I even met Larry Pratt and found him to be a decent guy.
No longer. The GOA isn’t trying to stop any gun control since they have never had a track record of doing anything. It seems they think they can simply expand their numbers by complaining about the NRA and taking some members. They must think there are only a set amount of gun activists and in order to get more money they have to get those members from the NRA.
Compare emails from the NRA and the GOA. The NRA doesn’t even acknowledge the GOA exists. Not so with the GOA. That no compromise ad slogan might as well say they don’t do anything except complain about other gun groups.
My boss doesn’t pay me for good intentions. He pays me for results. I don’t give out blue ribbons to ten year old just because they showed up.
I don’t pay money to the NRA because of a snappy slogan. I pay them because they defeated gore in 2000, passed Castle Doctine, passed CCW laws, passed the gun manufacturer’s protection act, lend legal protection in sixty cases a year and fight to keep gunranges open.
No one can ever tell me what the GOA has ever accomplished on their own. No one.
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