Posted on 04/20/2007 2:46:06 PM PDT by Congressman Billybob
About that Luby’s incident, the police chief of Belton TX said that if concealed carry was allowed, the death toll would have been much lower. But Ann Richards thought that the people of Texas were too stupid to handle guns.
Personally, I loved that little .45 Star PD I used to have. Short barrel, aluminum frame, and the great knockdown power I prefer was always on call.
The PPK of course kicks like a mule, worse in my opinion than my 1911A1 (it's so small and light, even the anemic .380 ACP can work up a pretty good punch).
I did not have any major problems with the fit on that concealable weapon, and it was going to spend the vast majority of its lifetime hidden away so the finish was unimportant as far as I was concerned.
Thanks for the info! Next week, I’m applying for a lifetime permit and then going *shopping*. I was leaning towards a S&W .38 but will definitely take a look at the PPK! Any problems with it jamming? Also, (if you don’t mind) pros and cons for either?
In ALL cases?
How many have you studied?
First of all, a semi-auto requires a lot more training than a revolver to become proficient and safe.
Second of all, it's now a collector's item (it wasn't really when I bought it - but that was a long time ago). You can figure on spending a LOT more than you would for a quality short barrel revolver.
Third of all, it DOES kick like a mule.
Finally, the .38 Special is a more powerful round, especially if you get the newer +P cartridges.
Disadvantages of the revolver are a bulkier sidearm & less concealable because of the cylinder, and only 5 or 6 rounds.
Back when I had to consider concealability under a business suit, the PPK was my summer carry because the 1911A1 wasn't concealable under a summer jacket. I used a shoulder holster because my suit skirts were fitted and didn't have a belt. (Most women find a waist carry awkward anyhow on account of having a waist and hips - of course a shoulder holster is awkward too if you have a bust. You just have to decide which is less awkward.) I've changed from the 1911 to a Sig P245, it's a little bulkier but it's DA. And because I can wear slacks to work now, I use a straight draw belt holster under a long jacket.
Another revolver you might consider, which has excellent knockdown power, is quite accurate, and doesn't really have any more kick than a .38 Special with +P loads - the old .44 Special (NOT the .44 Magnum, which is a silly cartridge for a carry gun, I don't care who you are.)
It will be a little harder to find ammo for it, but you don't have to hunt for a used one any more because a revived Charter Arms has reintroduced the Bulldog revolver. It runs around 300 clams, you could get a used Bulldog at a gun show for a little less (but not much less because they are in demand - I saw one locally at a gun show here for 250, it had obviously been carried til the blue wore off, but it was perfectly functional.)
I don't own a .38 special revolver - I have an ancient .38 S&W (not .38 special - the caliber is totally obsolete). But I'm not really a revolver person, because they just don't fit my hand right.
If that's the case with you -- if a semi-auto with its flatter sides is an easier hold and you shoot better with it -- you might want to consider devoting the extra time to training and becoming proficient. In that case, I would look at a semi-auto with a little more oomph than a .380 . . . maybe a .40 S&W or .45 ACP. Even a 9mm (not a caliber I love) is better than a .380.
Very, good, article. :)
The comment this pertained to was (post #15) — “I do not know whether Western Carolina University, UNC-Asheville, or Brevard College have policies like Virginia Tech to bar guns on campus. Those bans of course apply only to those who choose to obey that law.”
And then I said (post #17) — “But, in all the cases where weve heard about these kinds of shootings, it hasnt come out with a good ending where someone decided that they were not going to obey the ban.”
Then you come up and say (post #27) — “In ALL cases? How many have you studied?”
Okay, then, now that we’ve got the “conversation” and the “context” for this, let’s look at it.
It was noted in Post #15 that the bans may or may not be there in those universities. But, if they are, the poster was saying, in effect, that one could choose to disobey the ban and carry *anyway* (that’s the point of the comment).
And then I come back, in reference to the fact that one would be in a “no-gun area” and yet, still carry and disobey the law (or rules or regulations) — that in all cases, I’ve never heard of a situation where “such a thing” came out with a good ending (where they decided to disobey the law and carry anyway, and yet, they were able to somehow stop some killer or crime in a university area, as we were referring specifically to that, while generally to “no gun” areas in general).
In all the things I’ve seen on Free Republic, news accounts, TV and so on — and I do say *all* — I’ve never heard of such — absolutely never!
HOWEVER, from your statement/question — “In ALL cases?” — you seem to be implying that you have heard of such a case where one was carrying illegally, in a “no-gun” area of a university (or perhaps some other no-gun-zone), stopped some killing or crime (obviousy with the gun) — and yet have it come out with a “good ending”.
What I have heard of, is people getting prosecuted, after the fact. But, that’s certainly not a “good ending”, for sure...
So, since in “all cases” I’ve never heard of such a thing — and evidently *you* seem to be implying that *you have* — I would be very anxious to hear about that case...
Please proceed...
Regards,
Star Traveler
Switched recently to a Sig P245, but the Officer's Model is still my favorite.
I really can't carry a backup anywhere legal under GA law, although I guess I could have it in my purse as far as I'm concerned that's just a free bonus for purse-snatchers.
Most chain convenience stores have an official policy prohibiting clerks from carrying, and they fire those who are caught.
But the clerks quite rightly figure they won't have a job anyway if they're dead, and tote in violation of company policy.
Those encounters frequently have "happy endings". You can always find another job, after all.
The major pizza delivery chains also have no carry policies, but that didn't stop me from carrying when I did that work through college. Heck, the manager at my last store knew I carried - I even showed him my piece and went shooting with him a couple of times. He told me that if I ever had to use my gun on the job he'd have to fire me, and I told him I knew that and that I'd just find another job.
You said — “Those encounters frequently have “happy endings”. You can always find another job, after all.”
Well, the “not happy endings” is referring to the *consequences* that someone suffers when they violate the rule or policy or law.
For instance, the student in Colorado who was thrown into jail (I believe, or perhaps just arrested and released, don’t remember) and that was because he had guns in a no-gun-zone (at his university). Now, he’s facing all sorts of hassles and/or troubles.
Now, as far as the clerk who has shot at a robber, I would like to see that evidence of where there was a store policy and/or law on the books that prohibited that — and yet, when he (or she) shot a thief (or a potential thief, as it may be) — that he had no consequences for that (either legally or getting fired). That’s exactly what I’m talking about in regards to no good ending.
AND, the reason why I’m saying that, is that I hear some suggesting to *do it anyway* — regardless of the laws or policies and it just doesn’t matter. What I’m saying is that it’s *not going to be a good ending*.
That student in Colorado can attest to that right now. But, yes, tell me about some good endings (i.e., “no consequences for breaking university policy, store policy, business policy, city laws, state laws, etc. or whatever)...
I’d like to find that case...
Regards,
Star Traveler
You said — “He told me that if I ever had to use my gun on the job he’d have to fire me, and I told him I knew that and that I’d just find another job.”
Yep, that’s the example that I’m talking about — of “no good ending”. You use it, you’re fired... That’s entirely *typical*...
Regards,
Star Traveler
Between my Dad and brothers, I grew up shooting (and was a better shot than any of my brothers *snicker*), but it’s been awhile so I’ll definitely need some practice either way! lol I’ve always had a shotgun for home, but now I sometimes have to carry large amounts of cash (and even if the bank bag is empty, most people assume it’s not) and need something to carry.
I’m really short, so I don’t think I’d like the kick of the PPK. OTOH, I have small hands so I might like the way it fits my hand better. You’re right, the way my Dad’s .38 fits my hand leaves something to be desired, but I wondered if swapping out the grips might make it more comfortable.
I guess I’ll add the Bulldog to the list and test drive one of each. :\
Thanks for tons of useful info! At least now I have a better idea of what I’m looking for. :D
The shoulder rig was great for the Colt, and back when I was tossing weights about much more vigorously than I can manage today, the extra width across the shoulders made it visually impossible to detect... I also found that an ankle holster works well with comfortable jeans. Since you mentioned slacks, have you considered one?
H&K USP .40 Compact?
. . . talk about a mouse gun! I'm not sure you'd be able to stop a mouse, let alone a rat.
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