I can...
Posted on 04/16/2007 4:29:04 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
***... Mr. Giuliani maintains a big lead over his Republican rivals in the polls yet has all the wrong policy positions on social issues such as abortion and homosexual rights considered key to cultivating Christian conservatives. However, some evangelicals and pro-life Catholics seem willing to overlook his faults -- including his two divorces -- in the belief that he is the only Republican actually running who can defeat the Democratic nominee in 2008.
Still, Mr. Giuliani and conservative Christians "probably have irreconcilable differences on life and family and that kind of thing," said Mr. Falwell, adding, "I couldn't support him for president."
Nor is Mr. Dobson in Mr. Giuliani's cheering section.
"I do not believe that the current excitement over Giuliani will continue," Mr. Dobson told U.S. News & World Report.
Richard Land, president of the Religious and Ethics Liberty Commission of the Southern Baptist Convention, takes a hard line against virtually all the major Republican candidates. He says he'd vote for Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, New York Democrat, over Mr. Giuliani if the 2008 presidential race came down to such a choice. And if Mr. Giuliani wins, "he'll do so without social conservatives," Mr. Land said. .....
(Excerpt) Read more at washtimes.com ...
Faith background: Giuliani is a lifelong Roman Catholic, although many of his social views are at odds with the church's official teachings. In a 1994 speech on religion, delivered shortly after he became mayor, Giuliani said Catholicism provided a moral and intellectual framework for his life.
"The church has built the road that allows my intellect to traverse to the outer reaches of what is comprehensible and, at that point, the church offers a leap of faith to carry me where my intellect cannot go," he said, according to the New York Times. "For me, being a Catholic is not limiting but liberating."
Relationship with Religious Right: Religious Right leaders have viewed Giuliani with great suspicion because of his moderate-to-liberal views on several social issues. Religious Right leaders have also expressed dissatisfaction with Giuliani's personal life, which includes three marriages -- the second of which ended in a messy, public way while he was still mayor -- and strained relationships with his children.
However, a recent poll of evangelical Republican voters by the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life showed Giuliani besting other GOP hopefuls.
And, in an echo of McCain, Giuliani is scheduled to speak April 17 at Regent University, the Virginia Beach, Va., school founded by Pat Robertson.
On abortion: Giuliani's long-stated position is similar to that of many Democrats. He has said that, while he personally disapproves of it, he believes it should nonetheless remain legal. In a recent Fox News interview, he said of abortion, "I hate it." He added: "I think abortion is something that, as a personal matter, I would advise somebody against. However, I believe in a woman’s right to choose."
Nonetheless, he has also reportedly begun telling Republican audiences in presidential primary states that he would appoint only "strict constructionist" judges to the federal judiciary. Many abortion opponents take that as an indication that he would appoint judges likely to believe that Roe v. Wade was wrongfully decided and that the Constitution does not protect abortion rights.
On gay rights: Giuliani opposes legalizing same-sex marriage, but he has been a strong supporter of gay rights in almost every other respect. Among the gay-rights provisions he supported was a domestic-partnership law that provides gay New York couples with similar protections and responsibilities as married couples. He has also marched in gay-pride parades. According to multiple news reports, during his second divorce he temporarily lived with a gay couple who were his close friends. He opposes a federal constitutional ban on same-sex marriage.
On Iraq: Giuliani, like McCain and Romney, supports Bush's troop surge and opposes pulling the troops out anytime soon.
On the relationship between church and state: Giuliani has spoken little about his support for government expressions of religion or government support for religious charities. In a debate during his 2000 senatorial bid -- he withdrew from the contest after a cancer diagnosis -- he defended the Ten Commandments as an integral part of Western history. He has also said he opposes government-sanctioned prayer in public schools.
In the 1994 speech, he called for believers and non-believers alike to tolerate each other in civil society: "I will work as hard to protect someone's right to believe in God … [as] not to believe in God, because I realize that my right to practice my religion depends completely on my commitment to defend someone else's right to practice theirs."
As mayor, Giuliani advocated a school-voucher plan that included religious schools.
http://www.abpnews.com/2033.article
My only objection to Land’s remark is that he’d vote for EITHER ONE of them. I won’t.
There are other choices.
The best alternative if those are the choices, since we’ll lose no matter which way we turn, is to WRITE-IN ones favorite conservative....for me at this point, that would be Hunter or Thompson....no matter how they do in the primaries.
That is the only way to send a legitimate message to the REPUBLICAN Party about how they blew it.
If, God help us, Guiliani & Clinton are my two choices come election time - that is exactly what I plan to do. All of us should do that, rather than stay home.
However, thank God, I don't think those will be our two choices. I don't believe Rudy will last much longer in the polls if Thompson enters the race & it certainly looks like he is going to.
Really? Let’s compare the two.
-Hunter/Giuliani-
Built a double-fence at San Diego and signed a bill to extend it for 800 miles/Advocates a “virtual” fence.
Pro-Life/Pro-Abortion
Pro-Family/Announced his second divorce at a press conference without telling his wife.
Married to one woman for 33 years/Divorced twice.
Has a son who’s serving in Iraq for his third tour/Has a son who has no love lost for him and his third wife Judith.
Lifetime Rating of A by the NRA/Long-time advocate of national gun control.
Anti-illegal immigration/Defied federal law to keep NYC a sanctuary city.
Against homosexual marriage/Pro-”Civil Unions”
Served on the House Armed Services Committee for over 26 years (had it not been for him, Clinton would have eviscerated our military even more)/Advocated Bernard Kerik for secretary of Homeland Security...even though he had links with the mob.
Need I go on?
I can...
The compromise position at the Federal level is leave it to the states. If Rudy had accepted this (meager) compromise I could still support him.
I called you shallow because I thought it would have been more insulting to call you stupid. I repeat: You could not possibly believe in socially conservative views if you are shilling for a candidate whose personal life and political positions repudiate those same views.
Frankly, I prefer the Rudybots who just come right out and say they love abortion to those who go, "Oh, I'm very pro-life, BUT . . . " and then give some cockamamie explanation for supporting a candidate who wants to fund abortions for the poor so they'll have the same opportunity to kill their babies that the rich enjoy.
Actually, probably quite well. Rush pounds on this drum all the time: When conservatives run as conservative, they WIN. Eg. Ronaldous Magnus.
2006 should have been a wakeup call.
It was, but apparently some people didn't wake up. The Rep controlled Congress basically abandoned conservatism, taking the "middle" road and working "with" the Democrats. Spending went nuts, nothing happened for the conservative agenda for 6 years, we got McCain-Feingold, a huge "compromise" (capitulation) on education, etc., etc. The conservatives stayed home to "teach the GOP a lesson." Didn't work out so well, but that's what happened.
In other words, the wakeup call was that more appeasement of the left is not the way to win!
He tried, but that talking point was done in by Rudy himself.
Thanks. Now look at what ARE direct quotations, and tell me: which of us would disagree?
“Do we have any reason to believe that [McCain’s] being pro-life would have anything to do with who he would nominate to the Supreme Court? ...It’s that kind of uncomfortability with his unpredictability — the maverick nature that makes him so popular with independents — that gives conservatives pause.”
Just remember that Robertson is not endorsing Rudy, he was just saying that he thought that Rudy would be a good President.
I think Rudy would be a good president. I just think he would be bad for conservatives.
Robertson has Romney speaking at the university as well, and has said that Romney would be a good president. But he’s not endorsing Romney either.
Funny that you mention mob (*coughKerikcough*).
But I digress, I thought we wanted someone who would fight this war as a...well, war. Not as another "law enforcement" operation.
Rudy isn't performing abortions. He didn't make the law. He has said he'd appoint Justices that could overturn Roe. He has stated he hates abortion, would counsel against it and encourages adoption. You don't want a president, you want a dictator.
And you're supporting Rudy because...?
I'll be sure to mention that to Rick Santorum and George Allen.
Apparently Rudy supporters include people who are secretly pining for Pat Buchanon. Although I thought all those people were firmly in Tancredo's camp.....
Give a little? Sure. Give up all core beliefs? Not a chance. BIG DIFFERENCE.
You know...like adults.
More accurately, like appeasing leftscum in the fact of Islamiacs. It's ironic, those on the right understand that appeasement of terrorists won't work, but many then counsel appeasement of the Democrat party (phrased as "moving toward the center") in US elections. There's a disconnect there somewhere...
I haven’t seen any of the Rudy supporters post the major speech Rudy made while he was mayor that “counseled women against abortion”.
Could you post that for us?
Or do you mean that Rudy is going to set up an adoption counselling center in one of the unused rooms at the White house where he can give some one-on-one advice?
“And that attitude is how the GOP loses elections.”
It is demonstrably true and historically accurate that YOUR attitude is why the GOP loses elections. Some people are so consumed by self righteousness (atoning for past sins?) that they miss the forest for the trees.
You don’t have to like Rudy. I have plenty of reservations myself. But, I will not enable a Hillary presidency for ANY reason.
No, Richard Land is well known in Baptist circles. I think what he was saying is that the GOP frontrunners are little different from HRC; so he might as well vote for HRC, not that he really would. Of course, there is the sit-out and Constitution Party options too.
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