Can liberty survive the income tax?

RenewAmerica.us ^ | April 12th, 2007 | Alan Keyes

[EternalVigilance]

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[EternalVigilance]

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[elk]

Ah, wishful thinking, perhaps? This is a great article, by a great thinker. But, I'm afraid that, just like political correctness, which requires good, moral people to lie with their mouths, good moral people can't afford to risk liberty and their families, to often include children, to take a stand against such as described here.

I'm not sure what the solution is. Most kids today are being miseducated to think that their very breath ought to be regulated to protect against global warming. What will we do when these new generations come up? I guess on the other hand, those parents who neglected to protect their children from edu-predators and the cultural onslaught, will get their just desserts when their grown kids throw them under the bus when they are old and weak. Sad.

[Jacquerie]

We only think the situation is bad now. An Obama or Beast Presidency and a rat Congress . . .

[enuf]

Short answer to title, NO!

Call this tax whatever you want, it is the most insidious, personally invasive, one that can also easily be used to destroy Americans lives, and it flies in the face of what this country is supposed to represent, and violates almost every one of our so called Constitutional “Rights”

[MACVSOG68]

Well written, but faulty logic. There is no conflict between the requirement to file a tax return and the 5th Amendment. Courts have recognized that the government has the power to require a return when income is earned. The courts also recognize that one cannot be compelled to disclose any information on the return that will admit to engaging in illegal activity. So, other than the amount of ill-gotten gains, one need not say where it came from, if that would be tantamount to self-incrimination.

The courts have not only ruled continually that there is no conflict between the responsibility to file a return and the self-incrimination prohibition of the 5th Amendment, but they have continually ruled that the argument presented by you here is nothing short of frivolous.

The 5th Amendment does not provide a defense to the requirement to file a return because the filing of a return is a civil, not a criminal issue.

[rabscuttle385]

“Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s and unto God the things that are God’s.”

[Bigun]

Can liberty survive the income tax?

In my humble opinion the answer is definately no!

50 years ago Frank Chodorov wrote The Income Tax: Root of all Evil and today The income tax is remains as THE ROOT OF ALL EVIL.

We will never again be a truly FREE people for so long as we have the income tax and the IRS!

[TalBlack]

“Since habitual deference to law enforcement is the only basis for the filing requirement, such deference becomes the source of government authority, rather than the plainly declared and duly ratified will of the people expressed in the Constitution.”

This is a question that used to occur to me when I was a kid reading about some trial or other in the Soviet Union.

It very forcibly struck me that it was stupid, nonsensical to allow that any court, any man, had the power to assume to ajudicate such a thing. (The cases were often with respect to fundamentals that were beyond American courts.)

I believed then and I believe today that there are some questions that no court or Gov’t has the right to place them selves in authority of and that the proper answer to any such assertion is violence on the spot. But where is that line? And in such a conditioned population as ours is becoming, would it even be recognized.

In a related case:In todays NY Post NY state chief judge Judith Kaye has orderd the legislature to give judges their first raise in pay since 1999 (The legislature voted it down)or SHE would give judges the raise. Cute, huh?

Respect for Law? Nope.

[Flavious_Maximus]

The courts have also ruled that a mans labor is his own private property, therefor the government can not tax your labor. What it all comes down to is: What constitutes income?

[enuf]

By the way did anyone hear that some in congress are proposing a new addition to the income tax, it will be another “temporary tax”.
It will be known as the anti terror tax.

[MrB]

No one is saying that citizens should not pay taxes -

the gripe is specifically against an INCOME tax, especially a “progressive” income tax, which punishes you more as you achieve more.

[Jason_b]

The courts are not infallible. In the past, the USSC has found the income tax unconstitutional because it is not apportioned. A great deal of corruption has been invested in the establishement of this unapportioned tax. The courts have been corrupted no less than Congress. We are at the point now that though it is wrong, we do it their way---sort of like if the mafia wants a cut of your profits you give it to them or they'll hurt you. You can complain, you can object, but you pay to keep your knees from being broken. When the government itself is doing mafia like stuff it gets difficult because there is no higher power to save us other than ourselves and getting back to the declaration of independence if you know what I mean.

The progressively graduated individual income tax is Communist. It is one of the planks in the Communist Manifesto. We in this country are being told that Communist objectives is Capitalist, and vice versa. That is why the people accept the communist government schools systems, and income tax, they think it is capitalist. If they understood it is communist, things might be different.

However, I always tell people, before you worry about the IRS and the income tax, you are missing something vastly more important and that is the currency. I have told the fair tax people (who tell me to shut up) that before we have a fair tax, we must have a fair currency, as per Art. 1, Sec. 10, Clause 1, US Constitution. Money must be gold and silver coin and gold and silver coin must be money, exclusive of any other forms. Absolutely money cannot be monetized debt. There can be self liquidating bills of exchange, promissory notes, debt instruments traded, sure there can be debt, a modern economy needs debt to function, but the debt must ultimately terminate in precious metal coins. Currently, all money ultimately terminates in a debt contract somewhere.

Establish a FairCurrency which would be synonymous with the gold and silver coin of the Constituiton, then a FairTax which would be synonymous with being apportioned among the states and in accordance with the constitution. Abolish the income tax and the IRS as they are communist. Let reasonable and stable import duties and tarriffs pay the expenses of the federal government. This nation would be a happier place.

[Sam Cree]

No, liberty cannot survive the income tax. It is the source of power for politicians and bureaucrats and the means by which votes are bought through redistribution of property.

[EternalVigilance]

Dr. Keyes doesn’t say that we shouldn’t render unto Caesar that which is Caesar’s. Quite the contrary.

But, God, and our founders, gave us a free republic in which the citizen is the sovereign, under God.

So, isn’t it time for us to find a way to tax ourselves that doesn’t undermine our liberty?

Isn’t a tax on consumption much more amenable to freedom than the current plank of the Communist Manifesto that is in place?

[ikka]

The 5th Amendment does not provide a defense to the requirement to file a return because the filing of a return is a civil, not a criminal issue.

The problem is that the IRS uses "civil" when it suits their purposes and "criminal" when it suits their purposes. If they can throw you in jail for not doing what they want you to, by any reasonable standard, that is "criminal" law.

[sopwith]

“the filing of a return is a civil, not a criminal issue.”
Tell that to the people sitting in jail for taxes.

[EternalVigilance]

I think you’re kidding yourself if you think that what you put in your tax form can’t and won’t be used against you criminally.

[MACVSOG68]

The courts have also ruled that a mans labor is his own private property, therefor the government can not tax your labor. What it all comes down to is: What constitutes income?

Yes, the labor itself is private property. However, when you sell that labor to others, the income from that sale is taxable. That ruse has been tried using the 1st, 10th and 13th Amendments.