Posted on 04/09/2007 8:36:12 PM PDT by kellynla
Pet food contaminated with an industrial chemical may have sickened or killed 39,000 cats and dogs nationwide, based on an extrapolation from data released Monday by one of the nation's largest chains of veterinary hospitals.
Banfield, The Pet Hospital, said an analysis of its database, compiled from records collected by its more than 615 veterinary hospitals, suggests that three out of every 10,000 cats and dogs that ate the pet food contaminated with melamine developed kidney failure. There are an estimated 60 million dogs and 70 million cats in the United States, according to the American Veterinary Medical Association.
The hospital chain saw 1 million dogs and cats during the three months when the more than 100 brands of now-recalled contaminated pet food were sold. It saw 284 extra cases of kidney failure among cats during that period, or a roughly 30 percent increase, when compared with background rates.
"It has meaning, when you see a peak like that. We see so many pets here, and it coincided with the recall period," said veterinarian Hugh Lewis, who oversees the mining of Banfield's database to do clinical studies. The chain continues to share its data with the Food and Drug Administration.
(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...
That dog must have been gigantic! Our boy, Tycho, was about 75 lbs, 80 when he was chubby. Mom liked feeding him Bonz and Snausages. When she quit feeding him such junk, the pounds (as did the ridiculously horrendous gas they caused) disappeared. He lived to 15, outliving both his parents by a good 7 years.
Most people are not aware they and Purina give out a lot of scholarships to vets (as well as provide the two weeks of nutritional training they receive in school)... so as a result what do vets learn in school to sell to their clients? Science Diet!
Either one the Raw instinct of the Natures Logic would be excellent choices... I try to not give my dogs all one protein source all the time (over time the same thing can lead to allergies) I like that Natures Logic has several different proteins to choose from...
~LOL~ no, actually pumpkin is a great food to have on hand (the solid pack pumpkin without spices in it).... it is the one food that cleans out the upper intestine of toxins and will help stop diarrhea as well as constipation. Dogs seem to like the taste, too... another filler food to help a dog diet is low sodium canned green beans..
I've got a 40 lb bag of science diet in the garage that's got to be pitched.
I've been doing a lot of research on BARF and similar diets on the net -- where do you get the meaty bones you feed your pups? I picked up oxtails at the local market and realized they were the perfect choking hazard sized for a rott. Freepmail me if you want to discuss raw foods -- the more I read about it, the more my interest is piqued.
Our friends with the Rottie and two cockers actually changed what they were feeding when they saw how trim my three girls are and their male cocker had become very chunky.. I saw him last weekend (they live in California and have a second home here) and he is starting to slim down nicely after a couple of months off food with grains in it... of course, he is also getting a little more exercise from their new puppy. I did laugh when you said your child was slipping food to your dog, because our friends "were" slipping cheeseburgers to Ozzie because the husband felt guilty eating in front of him....
If you can get your cats to eat raw that would be great, they are usually more difficult to switch than dogs. BTW, Natures Logic is selling raw, too.... I haven't tried it, but it looks pretty good. mom4kittys called Natures Logic last week and the guy sent her some samples. She posted today the samples arrived and her cats liked it right off the bat...
People make raw feeding sound much more difficult that it really is. I feed goat, rabbit, beef, lamb, venison (all with organ meat, tripe and bone included), very little chicken or turkey... green tripe..
I make my own treats so they get grain-free treats, they get yogurt, blueberries, share bananas with my husband, green beans, pumpkin from time-to-time, if I have left over vegies at dinner I'll throw it in their dish...Check out the Hare-today.com site. It's very interesting and I like helping a family farm -- especially in light of this recall mess.
I agree.
The truth lies in the middle. Both sides lose when they argue extremes. (Ironically, it’s the same with politics today!) And the first thing both sides lose is credibility. Without credibility, no amount of arguing/yelling will get one’s point across. And in cases like this, that results in tragedy.
With all dogs, it’s important to match up the right dog for the right person/family. In other words, it’s not a good match to put a high-energy herding breed with a family who has 3 kids under the age of 5. That is a recipe for the kids getting bitten when the dog tries to herd them, and the dog will end up chained in the yard or taken to the shelter.
Too often people choose dogs based on how they look, rather than on their breed characteristics and the individual dog’s personality, temperament, energy level, etc. I have Ridgebacks, but the dog I kept out of the litter has been a total couch potato from day-one. Her sister took 4 years to mellow out. Yet they both are Ridgebacks to the core. So it was important to screen the potential puppy families to make sure they were suited to the breed, and then match the individual families with the individual puppies based on the lifestyle and energy levels in each of the households.
People simply can’t choose a breed of dog based on how it looks. You have to know yourself first, then you have to know the different breed Group characteristics, then you have to know the individual Breed characteristics, then you have to match the right dog within that breed to the right person/family. It’s not an impulse buy, and it’s not something where you walk the aisles at the local shelter and just pick one out because it’s cute. You have to be an educated shopper... You’re going to spend alot of money, time, and emotions on a dog for 10-16 years, so it needs to be a well thought-out adoption/purchase.
People spend far more time buying a car than they do obtaining a dog. Yet people usually have the dog longer than they have the car. And people don’t usually cry when the car dies.
I recommend you purchase a crate for your dog. I never recommend tying up a dog. Crates are great for dogs if used properly.
And out in the country, Coyotes can certainly breed with domestic dogs (Coy-dogs), so if you have Coyotes out there, do be careful. For that matter, your dogs are small, and small dogs are dinner for Coyotes, so I hope you don’t have them in your area, but you would obviously know about that already if you had them.
Your Beagle is a Hound. Hounds weren’t bred to guard the homestead, they were bred to hunt, so they tend to roam. That’s how you found her, right? Thus, Hounds need to be more consistently monitored. I’m glad she has a good home. But I hate to think she could still be roaming and could be hit by a car next time.
Yes, he was gigantic. He was a big (tall) boy, but like I said, he should have been about 85-90 pounds. The poor neighbors, “We just thought he was big boned.”
I said “He IS, but you can’t see his bones under the 30-35 pounds of extra fat he’s carrying!”
Yep, Ridgebacks are cool/gorgeous, but they’re definitely not for everyone.
I will have to figure out how to post a pic or two some day.
Regarding Banfield's window of stats, if you can find the earliest-dated quotation of their extrapolated numbers, you'll see how soon it came out after the recall was announced. I'm too tired to look for it, but if I remember correctly, it was within a few days, maybe a week of the recall announcement. And I don't believe they gave much detail on their stats, so I don't know that you will find anything meaty to work with. I'm just going by their verbal statement which is summarized in this article: "The hospital chain saw 1 million dogs and cats during the three months when the more than 100 brands of now-recalled contaminated pet food were sold."
Like you said, it would be nice to see the raw data and/or their full statistical report, rather than whatever tidbits some ignorant reporter thinks should be reported (or mis-reported).
And I've never read anything that adjusts for the lag time between manufacture and distribution/consumption. But keep in mind that the recall was recently expanded to include some products made back in November, so I would put more stock in the validity of the spike in Vet cases than I would in the moving-target-recall-dates-of-manufacture. For example, if increased ARF cases started spiking in their database back in September, then it would obviously indicate we don't know the whole story yet... as opposed to saying "the spike in ARF cases started before the recalled food was even made, so clearly it doesn't have anything to do with the recalled food." (Which may also be true!) So I would love to review both Banfield and VIN stats.
You believe the VIN numbers to be intrinsically more accurate than the Banfield numbers. So let's use VIN's numbers for a little exercise. Again, I'm tired and I'm doing much of this by memory, so please forgive (and correct) any errors: But I believe VIN stated their estimate of deaths is 2,000 - 7,000. Using existing data for the relative number of dead vs. sick, Menu Foods' taste test resulted in 18% dead (9 out of 50) and another ~30-35% sick (can't remember the exact number), and Oregon's State Vet's data shows ~37% of all sick cases resulted in death (41 dead out of 111 total cases sick/dead).
So we could say:
Using Menu Foods numbers: If 2000-7000 = 18%, then another 3,300 - 13,600 would be expected to be sickened. That yields a total sick/dead of between 5,300 - 20,600.
Using Oregon's numbers: If 2000-7000 = 37% of the total affected number dead, then another 5,400 - 18,900 would be expected to be sickened. That yields a total sick/dead of between 7,400 - 25,900.
Again, these are huge extrapolations from very small samples (50 animals in the Menu Foods taste test, and 111 animals in Oregon's data), but they are a starting point. But it sure would be nice to see all of the hard data for both Banfield and VIN.
I also don't think anyone has given any valid evidence to support the claim that cats are affected at a higher rate than dogs. For starters, cats eat wet food at a higher rate than dogs: how many 100-pound dogs do you know who eat cans or pouches of "cuts and gravy" type foods? Not many. Most dogs eat dry food. Whereas lots of cats eat wet food. So unless you compare apples to apples (compare dogs under 20 pounds to cats), or better yet, compare the exact same number of dogs under 20 pounds who eat the food with the same number of cats who eat the food... then it's not a statistically valid statement.
It may be true that cats are affected at a higher rate than dogs, I just don't believe they've supported it with any valid statistical evidence. On the other hand, perhaps the Vets are seeing clinical evidence to support that statement, but of course the media doesn't know what questions to ask, nor how to report on such potential clinical evidence. So maybe it's true, but in the statistics that have been released publicly, I haven't seen a valid case for it.
As an aside: I tried to report to FDA on the blood in my dog's urine. She was eating Iams dry food. At the beginning of the call, I specifically stated "this doesn't have anything to do with the Menu Foods recall because she is only eating dry food." After interviewing me, she stated "I'm confident this doesn't have anything to do with the Menu Foods recall." I said "I KNOW! I'm trying to report this because I know of several other dogs who have the same symptoms on Iams dry food, and I know you need to have a certain threshold number of complaints with similar symptoms before you will launch a formal investigation, so I'm just trying to get on the record so you will have sufficient numbers to launch such an investigation!" She blew me off because she was soooo focused on the Menu Foods recall.
So unless the Lily-eating cats are ALSO eating recalled food, I doubt anyone at FDA will include them in the recall stats because she was really focused on what food my dog was eating and whether it was on the CURRENT recall list. Nevermind that the food may have been on the recall list a week after she interviewed me, since the list is evolving.
Grains will put the pounds on dogs. Most commercial dry dog foods are loaded with grains. Why? They’re inexpensive.
That's the sort of side of effect of this hysteria that makes me think it's worthwhile spending some time trying to inject reason and perspective. If al-Qaeda decided to take advantage of the hyperfocused hysteria to slip something really awful into the human food supply, the time frame for detection and effective response would be tremendously slower than usual (and it's not clear the usual speed is anywhere near good enough).
FWIW, a veterinary researcher/professor who specializes in kidney issues is a consultant to an online group for feline renal failure that I participate in, and she put in her two cents worth yesterday. Her recommendation is to avoid all foods containing wheat gluten for now. She believes Menu Foods has been forthright and timely throughout this crisis. And she feels the most important thing to focus on is the safety of the food supply as a whole (i.e. humans are at risk too), and the risks associated with products and ingredients being imported form poorly regulated places like China.
Agreed. I just want to be sure that reason and perspective don’t cause it to be minimized because of the over-use of certain “down-playing” phrases/numbers, like repeating the “16” number over and over again.
And of course the “most important thing” to an individual pet owner who’s animal(s) are sick/dying/dead from this is different than the big picture “most important thing.” But yes, obviously this is a canary in a coal mine and should be a wakeup call regarding our entire food supply, pets and humans.
And I’m still not clear whether it was just chance that put this contaminated wheat gluten into the pet food supply rather than the human food supply, or whether it was intentionally diverted from the human food supply because SOMEONE knew there was a problem, and pets are “just animals” so it wouldn’t matter if some of them died. We need to know the answer to that. Did pets draw the short stick and it was just chance, or did pets get killed on purpose because someone knew this stuff would be deadly to humans?
Given that the contaminant seems to have originated in China (though that isn’t absolutely confirmed, last I heard), and that the Chinese have on several recent occasions responded to a spike in human rabies cases by having officials go out and bludgeon to death as many pet dogs as they can find, often right in front of their owners, I can see how an attitude of “it’s just pets” could be part of the decision-making process over there. Somebody may have learned that melamine had gotten into a big batch of wheat gluten, and decided that rather than throwing it all out, they’d make sure it went only to pet food manufacturers and their suppliers.
In defense of these hypothetical decision-makers, it’s possible they looked up the research on melamine toxicity in animals, found that the research showed minimal toxicity in dogs and rats, found nothing about cats and so assumed the same toxicity level as dogs/rats, and therefore figured that with very small amounts of melamine present (vs. the very large amounts generally used in toxicity studies) there was essentially no risk of serious harm. It’s worth keeping in mind that veterinary experts are still perplexed as to how melamine could have caused the severe effects that have been seen in many dogs. If they haven’t figured it out yet, some poor middle management schmuck in China probably didn’t stand a chance of recognizing a huge risk in this contamination, even with some honest effort to check on that possibility. And if the poor schmuck lived in one of the areas where he’s seen government officials bludgeoning hundreds of pet dogs to death (maybe even seen his own bludgeoned to death), his measuring stick for what constitutes a major risk would be quite different from ours.
On a related note, I saw a report on the feline renal failure list today from someone who had microwaved the contents of a recalled can of IAMS food (in a microwave-safe dish), and it threw sparks. She was inquiring as to whether this could have been due to the melamine. I don’t know. Hard to imagine that small particles of melamine spread out in the food could produce this dramatic effect, but I’d be interested to hear if you see any other reports like this. Melamine dishes do behave oddly in microwaves (the dish heats a lot more than the contents), but I’ve never seen one throw sparks.
Two things:
1. The melamine was added intentionally to boost the protein content of the gluten, presumably so it could be sold at a higher price per pound/ton. From what I’m reading, researchers no longer believe it is the melamine causing the problem, but rather something attached/imbedded/coating the melamine. The melamine is a marker compound, in that the cases of kidney failure are distinctly linked to the presence of melamine (in food and in urine and tissue samples), but they believe something they haven’t yet identified is the actual poison/toxin.
So the root fault may turn out to be poor quality control and contamination of the melamine, not the melamine itself.
2. Yes, China, as a country, does not value pets as much as America does (individual exceptions apply in both countries, obviously). I wasn’t necessarily attributing the decision-making fault to China. It’s yet to be seen who made the decision to put this particular contaminated gluten in pet food. It could have been the American or Canadian broker, it could have been the manager of the pet food factories, etc. And I agree with you that it’s unlikely that most of these middle-men decision makers had enough (or any) technical/chemical/scientific knowledge to know whether they were doing something potentially dangerous. But hopefully those questions will get answered in the investigation. If it’s found that someone DID know the melamine was contaminated, or that there were potential toxicity issues, then that person(s) will need to be put in Time Square inside a cage and fed a diet of this contaminated food.
Regarding the food sparking in the microwave: I wonder if it was truly sparks (ignition) vs. popping sounds from individual melamine crystals exploding due to heat expansion. People often aren’t accurate with their observations/descriptions when it comes to things like this. Ignition is obviously different from explosive expansion. But if it was sparks, I don’t know enough about the chemical properties of melamine to know whether that is an expected response to microwaves or not. But again, it may not have been the melamine causing the sparks, it may have been the contaminant in/on the melamine... the yet-to-be-identified contaminant.
But we both agreed that the more mellow Rottweiler was my ideal dog.
RE: Food. Went to the local pup boutique and found Raw Instinct, however the owner didn't feel it was best for the Rott because of the pellet-size. I picked up a bag of Innova EVO Large Bites (but might try the chilled Raw stuff the next time I come in) They also carry green tripe, which is truly horrifying looking stuff. ;-)
We talked about going raw for Ursa and she said it was a good idea for dogs as a rule, but felt it was not exactly practical for a real large size dog (doable, but just the sheer quantity of raw foods was going to be challenging). I'll let you know how the dog (and cats) do on the new stuff. Thank you guys both for all of the info and advice.
Oh, and AzC -- I'm still cracking up about Ozzie the rott and the cheeseburgers. Funnily enough, I let Ursa try some of my Wendy's burger once -- she gobbled it up, but left the pickles arranged artfully in her bowl. She was sending a message, apparently... ;-) No more burgers for Ursa.
As long as you don't feed kibble with grains in it (EVO is grain-free) then you could give a scoop of EVO in the morning and raw for dinner. One note: the EVO is higher in calories so watch the scoops of food you give her quantity-wise.
The corrections to your trainer’s info about Ridgebacks that I would make are these:
Different lines and different individual dogs have different levels of drive and energy. Drive is not the same as energy. One of my dogs has been a couch potato from day one, but she has plenty of hunting drive. She doesn’t NEED alot of energy, but she would certainly enjoy it and be able to handle it (strength and endurance) if it was part of her life, and she is an excellent huntress. Her litter-sister was much more high-energy and didn’t mellow out to a more couch-loving lifestyle until she was around 4 yrs old. She also has plenty of hunting drive.
Most Ridgebacks are happy to hold down your couch all day long. But if you take them out where they can run, they are happy and able to do that too. Contrast this with, for example, a Border Collie, who is NOT happy to lay on a couch all day, and does NEED a job to do with lots of exercise, or they will go crazy and drive you crazy too.
Second, because Ridgebacks are Hounds, they are a much different animal than a Working Group dog like a Rottie. Hounds were bred to hunt with very little guidance/direction from the “master”, so they are strong-willed, independent, and require different training methods (usually involving some sort of bribe, because they ask “what’s in it for me??”). Whereas Working Group dogs were bred to work with and directly for a human, so they inherently look to their human for direction and guidance. Thus, if you ask a Working Group dog to do something, they generally do it simply “because master asked me to”... as opposed to “what are you gonna give me if I do?”
Third, because Hounds are hunters, and because their prey drive as sighthounds is so high, I tell everyone they can’t be off leash anywhere that you might encounter prey animals (cats, rabbits, squirrels, etc.) or motor vehicles. It is just too risky that they might see a cat dart across the street and they will go into prey drive mode and chase the cat without even seeing the oncoming Semi Truck. There are some Ridgebacks with some owners who can be reliably off leash, but I would never risk it with my own Ridgebacks. Only in fenced-in areas, or wide-open spaces where there is no risk of being hit by a car, running off a cliff in the dark, etc.
Last, don’t forget you can always get an adult Ridgeback from a rescue group, so you can find one with the appropriate energy level for your lifestyle. And an adult would be able to go running with you right away, whereas a puppy shouldn’t be taken on runs until after it turns 2 yrs old to allow complete skeletal development and closing of the growth plates before the stress of running is put on the body. So if you want an instant running partner, look for an adult from a rescue group or a retired show dog from a breeder. And of course gradually build up the stamina of the dog, no matter how it may appear physically... because it may have been a couch potato in it’s previous life.
I knew a guy who dog-sat for his friend’s Lab. The Lab was a couch potato and was even a little overweight. The dogsitter took the Lab for a run, I think he said 3 miles, and the next day the dog could hardly move. The day after that, the dog was still “lethargic” (aka SORE), so the dogsitter took the dog to the Vet because he was worried. The Vet said the dog was fine, just tired from the run. When the dog’s owner came home, the dogsitter wanted the owner to reimburse him for the Vet bill. The dogsitter could NOT understand that the dog was out of shape and he shouldn’t have taken it on a 3-mile run (and darn near killed it). His reasoning? “But it’s a dog! Dogs are supposed to be able to go running with you.”
The problem with people taking dogs on runs is this: When dogs play with each other, if they get tired, they flop on the grass and rest. Then they play some more. This can go on all day long. But when they run with a human, they will absolutely try to keep up with the human, and the human doesn’t give them a chance to rest at their own pace. Dogs have DIED when humans take them on a run without giving them appropriate rest or water. Dogs overheat if they can’t run, because they can only “sweat” by panting. In the hot sun, just a few inches from the sweltering asphalt pavement, with no fluids and no rest, dogs can get heat stroke and die, not to mention burning their pads on the asphalt... and black dogs get even hotter in the sun, etc.
I’m sure you know all of this, but I wrote it out for anyone else who may happen to read this. Always build up a dog’s stamina just like you would your own. Always give dogs frequent water breaks (but don’t let them drink too much at one time), be careful of hot pavement on their pads, be careful of the temperature because they are closer to the pavement than you are and it’s hotter down there, let the dogs rest (lay down, not just stop) until their panting comes under control and their heart rate comes down, don’t run immediately before or after a meal, make sure the dog’s nails are trimmed before running, etc.
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