[chilepepper]

i believe Chinese people are natural merchants and businessmen/women and Marxism is not their natural to them - in one sense it is the worse import they could have brought from the "Foreign Devils".

IMHO Marxism is to China what Perry's Black Ships were to Japan - the spur to throw off an outdated feudal system and embrace the modern world, however smoothly it went (not very in either case!).

It seems to me dubious that *any* real good came from its Marxist experience. From what I know of history Chang Kai-shek made a reasonably serious attempt to modernize China (first started by Sun Yat Sen - too bad he died prematurely) but was foiled by the Japanese invasion first and Mao's insurgents later - at this point Chinese Marxism is completely counterproductive - no sane person believes in Marxism anymore - any Chinese who claim they do are hypocrites more interested in the economic benefits of being the decider class...

that said, the world is entering a very, very dangerous period while China's Marxist government morphs into something more stable (and democratic, allowing the new, talented Chinese middle class to have a say in how things should be done), and throws off the last vestiges of real *imperialism* and joins the great economic game which has knitted together most the planet.

China need to learn to tolerate Taiwan at their doorstep just as the US has tolerated Cuba at *its* doorstep - if it learns to, there will be peace. if it doesn't, there will be war.

[bert]

We are pretty much in agreement.

One very noneconomic trend that encourages me is the new freedom of Chinese scholars to explore the geology and archeology and invite in their Western counterparts to observe and participate. They have been bound and gagged for 50 years and are now freed of those restraints and able to enter the world dialog. They will be a force to be reckoned with if the aging Marxists try to relive the past.

[bert]

.....the spur to throw off an outdated feudal system and embrace the modern world.....

This is the main or primary theme of the twentieth century. All across the globe Kings and nobles were diposed. It was seldom peaceful. There are few left and they know their days are numbered. We can only hope that the transition of the Gulf States is accomplished in a peaceful manner.

Osama wants to duplicate Marx,Hitler,Mao and Saddam, all of whom hijacked a transistion..