Conservative think tank lends helping hand to Giuliani

Monterey Herald ^ | March 29, 2007 | William Douglas

[FairOpinion]

In his drive to be the first politician to go from City Hall to the White House, Republican Rudolph Giuliani is being schooled on issues by a conservative think tank that helped him dramatically reshape New York City's public policy during his mayoralty.

Giuliani is once again leaning on the expertise of the Manhattan Institute, a conservative brain factory. It was founded nearly 30 years ago by Antony Fisher, who was a mentor to former British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher and a friend to Reagan administration CIA chief William Casey.

Before Giuliani's first successful mayoral run in 1993, he sat through hundreds of hours of seminars set up by institute members, where he embraced a "zero-tolerance" approach to crime and a tough-love welfare policy that became hallmarks of his administration.

Giuliani says the new approach contributed to the huge crime drop that New York experienced while he was mayor. Homicides in the city plummeted from 1,927 in 1993 to 671 in 2000, according to FBI statistics. Major crimes - which include aggravated assault, robbery, burglary, rape - fell by 57 percent

Fans of the institute say it lives up to its motto of "Turning Intellect into Influence" by forcefully advocating a conservative free-market agenda of tax cuts, privatization, school choice and strict law enforcement - and by aligning itself with rising political stars such as Giuliani to carry it out.

[Godebert]

"OK, now the 2nd Amendment . . . . Rudy just wants to regulate gun ownership. That's entirely reasonable. "

You should put that in your tag line.

[Peach]

No kidding? You've only told me that about 100 times. ROFL

[Redcloak]

If they want to help him, they should suggest a liberalectomy; stat!

[OpenBar]

Conservative think tank lends helping hand to Giuliani

Will Juilianny learn how be Pro-Life, Pro-Right-to-Bear-Arms, and Pro-Family Issues there?

"Think Tank" = "Costume Designers"

[OpenBar]

"We are conservatives first and dear old Rudy does not pass the test."

Not only that, but I believe he would dress trampy at his inaugural if he won.

[Politicalmom]

We are trying to prevent it. We are fighting for anyone other than Giuliani.

[Ultra Sonic 007]

Again and again you bring out the "ONLY RUDY CAN BEAT HILLARY!" defense. It doesn't change that Rudy Giuliani is liberal on many many issues. Even his fiscal conservatism (in the later years, not at first, naturally) is coming under question now; there's the matter of spending going up and up near the end of his Mayoral term, and there's the matter of him trying to reinstate the huge commuter tax for NYC...

Add in his stances on guns, illegal immigration, and abortion, and you have a candidate who will cause the Socon portion to go away from the Republican Party. Nominating Rudy will GUARANTEE a Democrat win.

So suffice it to say, I see no reason why I shouldn't suppoort someone who has most, if not all, of Rudy's good qualities and none of the bad ones.

The purpose of the primaries is to select the person who is most likely to WIN, by BEATING the OPPONENT, NOT to select someone who makes you "feel good" but gets trounced in the general election by the opponent.

Of course Hunter makes me feel good. He's a conservative.

Where you and I disagree is whether or not he can win. If he wins the nomination, I'm very confident about his chances. And all of the polls right now don't mean jack at this early stage in the game.

[Liz]

....Rudy has to be "schooled" in how to fool conservatives....

Rudeo is also getting tips from "The Shadow," Alec Baldwin, on how to clouds men's minds so they forget every liberal thing Mayor Rudeo ever did.

[airborne]

Real conservatives don't need "schooling" from real conservatives!!!

[AuntB]

They LIKE Rudy's liberal views and record. It's that simple.

[AuntB]

Giuliani is once again leaning on the expertise of the Manhattan Institute, a conservative brain factory.

Conservative, phooey!! The Manhattan Institute is about as conservative as Rudy. Birds of a feather. If this is where Rudy is going to develop his new immigration position, we're in more trouble than I thought.

Tamar Jacoby (Ms. open borders herself) runs the immigration policy of the Manhatten Institute!

Manhattan Institute Scholar | Tamar Jacoby Tamar Jacoby, a Senior Fellow at the Manhattan Institute, writes extensively on immigration, race, and ethnicity.

www.manhattan-institute.org/html/jacoby.htm

[Kevmo]

Thanks for the ping.

Hildebeast is eminently beatable, this nonsense about rudy being the only one who can beat her is horse manure and impolite on this socon forum. For example, this article:
"Long Shot GOP Candidate Brownback Just Five Points Behind Clinton"
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1798666/posts
We know that it simply means it's very early in the race and that even no-name candidates are only 5 points behind Clinton. So the rudybots should stop supporting a social liberal on this social conservative forum and pick a real winner, rather than a ridiculous loser liberal like rudy.

As a Duncan Hunter supporter I am choosing not to engage in debate on this Rudy Giuliani thread on Free Republic. As a freeper I am disappointed that there are fans of a liberal presidential candidate trying to push socially liberal views on this socially conservative forum. In particular, I have noticed that the Rudy G fans do not answer posts questioning the qualitative substance of their candidate, or the posts are met merely with insults. And in short, I have noticed that rudy followers are simply rude.

The 2 polls on Free Republic put forth an obvious SOCON (only Hunter fits that description given) versus a SOLIB (it certainly fits rudy).
http://www.freerepublic.com/perl/poll?poll=171
http://www.freerepublic.com/perl/poll?poll=172

Rudy splits the base.

I have noticed time and again that rudy supporters rudely send up the false dilemma of "who would you vote for, Hildebeast or Rudy". This particularly impolite at this early of a point in the primary cycle. Since this is a socon forum (not even a GOP forum), it is very impolite to ask double-bind questions, especially this early in the race.

Since team rudy is so fond of its own false dilemma, I would expect them to answer this false dilemma.

My contention: If rudy gets the nomination, he splits the base, possibly splits the republican party, and loses the election.

Rudy followers’ contention: If Hunter gets it, he wins the base and loses the election.

Hypothetical to answer the rudy followers’ hypothetical. Both sides losing to Hillary.
Side A: The solib republican splits the base. The MSM turns on him the moment he is nominated. Hillary wins. Republican party is split.
Side B: The socon republican wins the nomination, loses to hildebeast in a tough fight. Republicans are united against the hillary presidency.

Which candidate is best for the republican party, Side A or Side B?

Win-Win false dilemma:
Side A: Solib wins presidency by ignoring the socon base and permanently splitting the republican party.
Side B: SoCon wins presidency by (obviously) relying on the socon base.

Which candidate is best for the republican party, Side A or Side B?

Here's 2 more cases to round out this Pascal's wager for politics. The win-lose scenarios.

Hunterbot contention: Hunter wins, Rudy loses.
Hunter is a socon who unites the base. His cross platform issues attract wide swaths of democrats looking for someone who would support our military across the board, stay true on WOT and security issues like the border and militia/gun ownership, and even strikes a balance on the protectionism-fair trade-open border/free trade continuum. Hunter would proceed from uniting the base to attracting a large contingent of crossover votes and beat Hildebeast, never once relying on the MSM to do anything but what it has done in the past.
Rudy, on the other hand, splits the base. As soon as he would win the nomination, the MSM would turn on him just as they turned on the last liberal candidate with high poll numbers, and we end up with a split base, a president Hillary, and a fractured republican party.
Which candidate is better for the republican party, side A (rudy) or side B (Hunter)?
Rudybot contention: Rudy wins, Hunter Loses.
Even though he's an acknowledged solib, Giuliani is the only candidate who can beat Hillary. He polls highest, so he wins the nomination and would beat Hildebeast in the general election. Hunter would lose the general to Hildebeast due to name recognition factors and a seeming contention that socons are yesterday's news. Rudy pulls the republican party leftward the same way aRINOld is doing in California. A Hunter loss would mean a united republican party against Hildebeast; a rudy win could mean the end of the republican party similar to what happened to the Whigs over the social issues of their day.

So out of the 4 cases, Hunter wins 3 of them. And out of ALL 4 CASES, Free Republic and the republican party is better off with Duncan Hunter than Rudy as the candidate. This social liberal candidate is simply not healthy for the republican party nor for FR. And rudy followers are proving to be very impolite freepers.

Duncan Hunter's campaign website
http://www.gohunter08.com/

Sam Hunter: Duncan Hunter's Ambassador to Free Republic
3/13/2007
Posted on 03/13/2007 10:11:39 AM PDT by Ultra Sonic 007
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1800187/posts
Sam has been answering questions, unlike the crickets we hear on rudy threads.

Statement of Jim Robinson, Founder of Free Republic:

As a conservative site, Free Republic is pro-God, pro-life, pro-family, pro-Constitution, pro-Bill of Rights, pro-gun, pro-limited government, pro-private property rights, pro-limited taxes, pro-capitalism, pro-national defense, pro-freedom, and-pro America. We oppose all forms of liberalism, socialism, fascism, pacifism, totalitarianism, anarchism, government enforced atheism, abortionism, feminism, homosexualism, racism, wacko environmentalism, judicial activism, etc.

Rudy Giuliani video on YouTube: "I would like to run on the Democratic line "
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1793570/posts

Video of Rudy Giuliani in his own words
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVBtPIrEleM

Transcript of video below.

Will the real Rudy show up at CPAC?

Culture of life:

ABC clip:

George Will: "Do you think Roe v Wade was good constitutional law?"

Rudy Giuliani: "Yes I believe, I believe it is."

Cnn Clip December 2, 1999:

Announcer: "Giuliani was then asked whether he supports a ban on what critics call partial birth abortions, something Bush strongly supports."

Rudy Giuliani : "No, I have not supported that, and I don't see my position on that changing."

Immigration

CNN clip:

Announcer: "Back in 1996, mayor Giuliani went to federal court to challenge new federal laws requiring the city to inform the federal government about illegal immigrants."

Rudy Giuliani: "There isn't a mayor or a public official in this country that's more strongly pro immigrant than I am. Including disagreeing with President Clinton when he signed an anti-immigration legislation about two or three years ago."

Gun control:

CNN clip

Rudy Giuliani: "I'm in favor of gun control"

Meet The Press:

Tim Russert: "How about registration of all handguns?"

Rudy Giuliani: "You know I'm in favor of that. I've been on your show many times."

Gay Rights:

CNN Clip:

Announcer: "As mayor he supported civil unions, and extending health and other benefits to gay couples."

ABC Clip: "I supported domestic partnership legislation and signed it"

Meet The Press:

Tim Russert: "So should gay people be openly allowed to serve?"

Rudy Giuliani: "I think people should be judged on the merits. And there should not be a specific focus on someone's sexual orientation."

First Amendment:

ABC Clip

Cokie Roberts: "Would you vote in the senate in favor of Mccain / Feingold?"

Rudy Giuliani: "Yes, I'm a big supporter of Mccain / Feingold. I have been for a long time."

Party Loyalty:

ABC Clip:

Rudy Giuliani: "Frankly George, I'd like to run on all the lines. I'd like to run on the liberal line, the conservative line, I'd like to run on the democratic line if I could figure out how to do it."

Conservative Values:

Meet The Press:

Tim Russert: "Whether it's gays in the military, gun control, campaign finance, late term abortion - you and Hillary Clinton are in sync on those issues."

Rudy Giuliani: "Well then maybe the other side should stop the 'He's part of the vast right wing conspiracy'."

Welcome To CPAC, Rudy!

End clip.

[AuntB]

Except for Immigration Law Just ask Tamar Jacoby of the Manhattan Institute.

Thank you! I was wondering if someone would notice that.

Tamar Jacoboy is always on the side of open borders/non enforcement, which of course agrees with Rudy.

People need to learn fast that because some outfit calls itself conervative, doesn't mean it is! The Manhatten Institute and Club for Growth come to mind.

[AuntB]

80% of conservatives have a favorable opinion of Giuliani.

And how lucky for you, 80% of conservatives haven't a clue what kind of policies he's in favor of.

[airborne]

Tim Russert: "Whether it's gays in the military, gun control, campaign finance, late term abortion - you and Hillary Clinton are in sync on those issues."

Rudy Giuliani: "Well then maybe the other side should stop the 'He's part of the vast right wing conspiracy'."

Notice - Rudy doesn't deny the accusation!!!

[airborne]

BS!!!

Just because some poll says conservatives support a liberal, we should believe it??

[stephenjohnbanker]

New degree MCS

Masters in Conservative Studies : )

[stephenjohnbanker]

"80% of conservatives have a favorable opinion of Giuliani"

That poll is crap!

[dforest]

Actually, this should be an embarassment to anyone on this site that considers themselves a conservative.

The candidate we are supposed to vote for that the GOP is offering up, is nothing more than a professed liberal that has ran in NYC as a Republican.

Can you believe it? They are schooling this RINO to appeal to us. Whats the class? How a RINO can make conservatives go to polls and vote for a well known liberal?

Nope Rudy, you have already left your scent. And it just does not have a conservative smell to it.

[dforest]

Didn't you know, airborne?, you aren't one of the New Liberal Conservatives? Get with the program.

LOL and you know it.