"The UK military, such as it is, is man for man as good as anyone's. True. But, how many ships, planes and divisions have you? Fewer than you need to be taken seriously as a great power, especially as a conventional great power. Russia, China and India are more powerful, as is probably Israel."
Originally posted by: UKrepublican
"Our country is not the same as it once was, it never will reach that level again. There is no way a nation our size could afford to sustain our position in the modern world. Our military isn't as great as it once was, but it's still good enough to work with out international friends if a job needs doing. We have more than shown that to be the case.:
The UK did not have a problem in the past maintaining a world class Navy. Here are some numbers with the pre-WWII 1939 Royal Navy when the UK had a population base of around 48 million (not including the "Empire"). The same comparison is made for the 1941 US Navy when the population base of the United States was around 132 million. The industrial bases of both nations did a very good job of expanding their Navies even with the combat losses both suffered. I do wonder why today when the UK with a poplulation base of around 60 million and the 4th largest economy in the world has problem supporting a Navy of sufficient size?
| Type | Pre-war Royal Navy | Pre-war US Navy | Aug 1945 Royal Navy | Aug 1945 US Navy |
| Carriers, Fleet | 5 | 7 | 5 | 19 |
| Carriers, Fleet Light | 2 | 2 | 8 | 9 |
| Carriers, Escort | 0 | 0 | 40* | 71 |
| Battleships/Battlecruisers | 15 | 15 | 15 | 25 |
| Cruisers, Heavy & Light | 66 | 37 | 67 | 72 |
| Destroyers/Destroyer Escorts | 184 | 171 | 308** | 738 |
| Submarines, Fleet | 60 | 112 | 162 | 232 |
| Total Major Warships | 332 | 344 | 605 | 1,166 |
Notes:
* = Includes 39 Lend-Lease Escort Carriers from USA
** = Includes 50 Lend-Lease Destroyers from USA
Source: Royal Navy and World War 2, Losses
Source: Department of the Navy, Naval Historical Center
Source: Department of the Navy, Naval Historical Center
Source: Hazegray Naval History
The August 1945 US Navy totals do NOT include ship classes such as Mine Warfare, Patrol (Corvettes, PT boats, etc), Amphibious (LST, LSD, etc), Auxiliary (tankers, cargo etc) in any way. Not to mention the ships of the United States Army. :-) If all the US Navy ships in commission in August 1945 were listed the the US Navy would have an end strength of 6,768 ships. The largest Navy which has ever existed in the history of the world.
It will be nice when Britain finally gets back into the big carrier business, maybe then they will buy the necessary escorts for their two planned big-deck carriers. These large carriers combined with their version of the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter will again make them the solid number two Navy in the world. However in the mean time it looks as if the Royal Navy will shrink even further until 2015...
On a historical note, I think that the "passing of the torch" as the leading Navy occured late in the year 1944. That is when the newly formed British Pacific Fleet left the UK proper for the Pacific Ocean...
Probably the biggest shock the Brits had in WWII was in December 1944 when the Naval combat of the European Theatre had diminished to the extent that Britain was able to put together their most powerful Naval task force of WWII - the British Pacific Fleet. It included four of their largest Fleet carriers, two fast battleships, five cruisers, fifteen destroyers and support ships. Commanded by Admiral Sir Bruce Fraser the newly formed British Pacific Fleet steamed towards it namesake ocean to join the US Navy in action against the Empire of Japan.
Admiral Fraser was very proud to command the very cream of the WWII British Royal Navy - but he and the British sailors quickly got three jolts upon their arrival in the Pacific Theatre. First was that the British Pacific Fleet was lost among the numbers of ships of US Pacific Fleets then in operations against the Imperial Japanese Navy. Second problem was that the Royal Navy did not have a handle on underway-replenishment - a requirement to maintain the operational tempo in the vast Pacific theatre. The British fleet train was never up to the job, even with US Navy assistance. The third jolt was that the British fleet was not up to US Navy combat standards for the Pacific war against Imperial Japan - it took three months of work in secondary theatres before the British "Task-Force 57" and its Air Groups were ready for action as a first-line force.
The Pacific scale of combat and size of the US Navy Pacific Fleets brought home the fact to the British Royal Navy that had lost its centuries old title as the "Ruler of the Waves" - to the new Mistress of the Seas - the United States Navy.
dvwjr
Think "National Health".
L
Universal healthcare?