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To: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus

The movie is based off a comic book writer and the film is fiction not based on reality. Reality is the Persians crushed the Spartans and went on to burn Athens.

The Spartans were mostly homosexuals
They were authoritarian that is why they fought with and did not respect the Athenians
They did not believe in democracy or the Western way of life as claimed
They are not exactly the models of modern society or the advents of modern democracy




30 posted on 03/27/2007 2:42:54 PM PDT by freedom44
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To: freedom44
The movie is based off a comic book writer and the film is fiction not based on reality. Reality is the Persians crushed the Spartans and went on to burn Athens.

The Persians then went on to be defeated by the Spartans and their allies, under the command of Leonidas' nephew Pausanias, at Plataea. This was the battle depicted at the end of the movie. None of this is inconsistent with what happened in the movie.

The Spartans were mostly homosexuals

The Spartans practiced institutionalized homoeroticism, specifically pederasty, as did virtually all Greeks and many other Mediterranean cultures of the period. Homosexuality is a preference for same-sex intercourse to the exclusion of heterosexual intercourse. If they were mostly homosexuals, there wouldn't have been too many of them around by the 5th century BC, as few if any would have been breeding.

They were authoritarian that is why they fought with and did not respect the Athenians

The Athenians were authoritarian as well to their "allies" in the Delian League, and also kept slaves.

They did not believe in democracy or the Western way of life as claimed

Our Founding Fathers didn't believe in democracy, either. This is why we have a constitutional republic. The Spartans also had a constitutional government. Sparta's kings were subject to the laws of Lycurgus just as the other Spartans were. Sparta's kings did not hold absolute power, either.

They are not exactly the models of modern society or the advents of modern democracy

Neither were the Athenians or the Romans, or anyone else from that time. Strictly speaking, neither were many of our own Founding Fathers. That doesn't mean we don't respect what the Founding Fathers, the Romans, the Athenians, or even the Spartans did accomplish.
35 posted on 03/27/2007 7:41:40 PM PDT by The Pack Knight (A fine is a tax on doing wrong. A tax is a fine for doing well.)
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To: freedom44
The Spartans were mostly homosexuals
They were authoritarian that is why they fought with and did not respect the Athenians
They did not believe in democracy or the Western way of life as claimed
They are not exactly the models of modern society or the advents of modern democracy

They also practiced eugenics in an effort to breed a race of super warriors. In short, they were proto-Nazis.

Still, there is something about a last stand against overwhelming odds that still fires the imagination.

36 posted on 03/28/2007 3:41:47 AM PDT by Junior (Losing faith in humanity one person at a time.)
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To: freedom44
The movie is based off a comic book writer and the film is fiction not based on reality. Reality is the Persians crushed the Spartans and went on to burn Athens.

Actually, the events depicted in the movie are more or less accurate, from what we can gather from the ancient historical sources. The Persians only crushed the Spartans because of Ephialtes' betrayal, and the the burning of Athens is not within the timeframe of the movie, coming later after the Persians had pressed further into Greece.

The Spartans were mostly homosexuals

Correction - the Spartans (as with most other Greeks), were homoerotic. They did not practice a "homosexual lifestyle" in the sense that us moderns think of it. Pederasty was common in ancient Greece. NAMBLA would, in many ways, have been quite at home in Athens. The Thebans had an elite band of warriors made up entirely of pairs of male lovers. It was a vice that afflicted Greek society generally.

They were authoritarian that is why they fought with and did not respect the Athenians

MOST Greek city-states at the time were authoritarian, either monarchies or under the various tyrants. Even Athens lived under Peisestratus for a while. The Athenians themselves, even under the democracy, still managed to execute Socrates, oppress their "allies" in the Delian league, even razing city-states that wouldn't cooperate with them, and kept a full quarter of their population as slaves.

They did not believe in democracy or the Western way of life as claimed

Well, "democracy" is not the end all and be all of the Western way of life. Indeed, most of Western history has NOT been characterised by a great love of democracy. Even Athenian democracy was not what we think of by the term today.

They are not exactly the models of modern society or the advents of modern democracy

And nobody has said they were. The Spartans had a LOT of serious problems with their societal ethos, not the least of which was that they were themselves an imperial state which had conquered Messenia during the Archaic period and kept the Messenians as helots - serfs tied to land and kept as third-class citizens. Young Spartan men, before their full entry into the Spartan military aristocratic society, would serve a couple of years as "secret policemen", spying on the helots for any signs of dissent, and would more or less summarily execute any thought to be subversive. So yes, Sparta definitely had its problems, and even in Classical Greece, it was viewed as a backward and regressive state.

But the point of the movie, and why we should yet be glad for the sacrifice of the Spartans (and Thebans, and Thespiaens) at Thermopylae is that they really did, historically speaking, give the rest of Greece time to get it together to defend the cradle of our civilisation from the Persians. If they hadn't done so, our whole Western civilisation might well have been strangled in the crib. Leonidas gave Themistocles time to win at Salamis, and this battle, along with Plataea, Marathon, and Salamis, were instrumental in altering the entire course of world history.

42 posted on 03/28/2007 6:38:57 AM PDT by Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus (A sense of humour is a sign of intelligence. Which is why liberals are so humourless.)
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