Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

To: Tokra
That is your opinion, and of course you are entitled to it.

Thank you, but the issue is rather whether or not my opinion is well grounded.

But please explain to me the Biblical references (Paul)to "praying for the dead"?

Sure.... there ain't no such animal. No passages exist the refer to Palul "praying for the dead." none.

I have addressed this question before. My problem with purgatory is NOT the idea of purgation/purification from the presence and influences of sin. Therefore, I do not categorically reject the idea of a "purgatory." Of course we all believe that must happen at death to be in the presence of a holy God, so that the totality of our being "catches up" with our federal/declarative state. Otherwise we would be unfit for the presence of God, and He could not bear us. Also, I don't have a problem with the concept of a "progressive" idea of purification. Time will be no more and the concept of a linear temporal dimension may "fit" better. Who knows and to be frank, who cares? Certainly not I, and if you want to call this purification "purgatory" seeing as how the scriptures do seem to indicate that some on that day "will suffer loss" and that there is a system of rewards for faithfulness -- implying some sense of deprivation, we can walk together here.

My problem is with the WHOLLY unbiblical and antigospel notion that our own suffering somehow atones for, or covers our sin. Again, this is blasphemous, as it strikes at the very heart of the gospel. Men cannot save themselves. God alone saves. Christ alone in his death atones for sin, and again, you can no more atone for your sins that you can sprout wings and fly to Mars. This is, if I understand you correctly, and I may not, VERY serious and strikes at the heart of the gospel itself. Possibly you need to correct my misunderstanding of your teaching on the subject?

408 posted on 03/30/2007 8:03:49 AM PDT by DreamsofPolycarp (Ron Paul in '08)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 406 | View Replies ]


To: DreamsofPolycarp
The scripture I was referring to is 2 Timothy 1:18. Protestants say it doesn't mean Paul was praying for a dead man - Catholics say it does.

Purgatory does not mean that mankind can redeem himself - only Jesus can do that.

I know Protestants insist that faith ALONE is what will save us - but that is not what scripture says:

"faith without works is dead" (James 2:20)

God "will render to every man according to his deeds" (Romans 2:6).

"And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works ... and they were judged every man according to their works." (Revelation 20:12, 13)

"For we [believers] must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad." (2 Corinthians 5:10)

Here are several scriptures that tell us we will be judged by "our works".

Of course anyone can pick and choose which scriptures they want to ignore - but if you believe the bible means what it says - then it means we will be judged by our works.


1Corinthians 13:13 "There are three things that will endure – faith, hope, and love – and the greatest of these is love."

Note - Paul does not say faith is the greatest - but love is.

None of us can judge what exactly the bible means. For every verse that proves one person's point - there is another verse which proves someone elses. Who's to say which person is right? We will all find out in the end.

409 posted on 03/30/2007 8:36:55 AM PDT by Tokra (I think I'll retire to Bedlam.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 408 | View Replies ]

To: DreamsofPolycarp; Tokra
No passages exist the refer to Palul "praying for the dead."

ahhh.. Palul, yes, the famous Muslim apostle.

of course I meant "Paul" but I didn't want to advertise that I am sometimes an idiot who can neither type nor spell.

410 posted on 03/30/2007 8:37:21 AM PDT by DreamsofPolycarp (Ron Paul in '08)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 408 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson