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To: Cicero

Something doesn't add up here. Terminal phase (within 10nm) accelerates to mach 3 and is able to do defensive moves.....not at mach 3!


9 posted on 03/24/2007 9:54:58 AM PDT by Keyga8tor
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To: Keyga8tor

Actually, it can. I was the Senior TAO on the JFK (CV-67....decom'd yesterday) on it's last deployment in 2004. We have the RAM defense system on our carriers, but it is a hard press to defeat the latest missiles in the ssn22, 25 and 27. Antimissile defense and ASW have been completely ignored in Naval Warfare the past 5-7 years.


14 posted on 03/24/2007 10:04:51 AM PDT by ThunderStruck94
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To: Keyga8tor
"Something doesn't add up here. Terminal phase (within 10nm) accelerates to mach 3 and is able to do defensive moves.....not at mach 3!"

At Mach 3 it wouldn't need to, would it? There is one thing that makes me a bit skeptical; I am sure that the Russkies have 'overhyped' the capabilities of this weapon in order to sell it. While it is apparently a threat, whether its as deadly a threat as claimed is gonna be unknown until its used - all the more reason to get a defensive system in place. No one has threatened our carriers since the Kamikazis of 1944-45, and this would be a nasty development indeed. Iran would think twice because they know we would pulverize them if they attacked us with this weapon, but China is another story...hard to believe that we would ever go to war with China given how intertwined our economies have become, and the Chinese aren't exactly known as reckless gamblers...but...they do aim to supplant us as the dominant power in the Eastern Pacific eventually...

15 posted on 03/24/2007 10:05:31 AM PDT by Al Simmons (Rudy will beat Hitlary. The Toon's smear machine is working overtime. Are you helping them?)
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To: Keyga8tor

After reading yesterday's post about this missile, I did a quick Google search, and in the first page of results, I found various stories that described this Sizzler missile either as subsonic (and looking much like a Tomahawk), supersonic, or subsonic with a supersonic terminal phase. And we're talking about reputable sites, such as Jane's, with varying information.

I hope the Navy has a better idea of what it's up against than this.


16 posted on 03/24/2007 10:06:57 AM PDT by michaelt
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To: Keyga8tor
Something doesn't add up here. Terminal phase (within 10nm) accelerates to mach 3 and is able to do defensive moves.....not at mach 3!

Lots of things don't add up here...
China bought 8 diesel submarines to fire the missiles? and the US military and intelligence services can't keep track of 8 diesel submarines?

Russian missiles traditionally have been designed to rely on a massive central control elements, which track the targets and feed the missiles tracking information.
Where might that central control center be?

How is this missile guided? inertial plus active radar seems to be the answer. Inertial is not enough against a moving target, and radar can be spoofed or jammed.

As I understand it, it is subsonic except for the last 6 miles or so.

I would hope that the navy protects its carriers for a radius of more than 6 miles!

34 posted on 03/24/2007 10:54:12 AM PDT by Publius6961 (MSM: Israelis are killed by rockets; Lebanese are killed by Israelis.)
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To: Keyga8tor
"Something doesn't add up here. Terminal phase (within 10nm) accelerates to mach 3 and is able to do defensive moves.....not at mach 3!"

Considering what a little bit of drag on one side or another can do, I wouldn't bet on that if I were you.
66 posted on 03/24/2007 9:17:14 PM PDT by Old Student (We have a name for the people who think indiscriminate killing is fine. They're called "The Bad Guys)
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To: Keyga8tor

The 200kg warhead missile zig zags on terminal approach. The 400kg warhead version does not.


http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NAVY/Klub.html

The 3M-54E three-stage anti-ship missile consists of a booster, a subsonic cruise low-flying sustainer stage and a low-flying supersonic terminal stage. For surface vessels of smaller displacement or with shortened torpedo launchers, the system uses the 3M-54E1 anti-ship missile, which has a booster and a subsonic cruise sustainer stage, but carries a heavier warhead than the 3M-54E missile. After launch from either a vertical or angled deck-mounted launcher or from a submarine torpedo tube, the 3M-54E and 3M-54E1 follow similar trajectories. At an altitude of up to 150 metres, the solid-propellant booster is jettisoned, the under-fuselage air intake is extended, and the air-breathing sustainer engine is started. At the same time the wings and tail surfaces are extended, and the weapon descends to its cruising altitude of 10 to 15 metres above sea level. At a distance of up to 30 to 40 km from the target, the missile climbs to higher altitude and activates its ARGS-54 active homing radar seeker.

Developed by the Radar-MMS company of St. Petersburg, the ARGS-54 seeker has a maximum operational range of 60 km. As the missile continues towards the target at subsonic speed, the seeker scans from +45º to -45º in azimuth, and from and +10º to -20º in elevation. The ARGS-54 is 70 cm long, 42 cm in diameter, and weighs 40 kg without the radome. It can operate in precipitation conditions of up to 4mm/sec and in heavy sea conditions of up to sea state 6. After the target is detected and the seeker has locked on, the 3M-54E1 flies on at high subsonic speed to destroy the target. The 3M-54E, on the other hand, reaches its target in a different manner. At 20 km from the target, the 3M-54E's supersonic solid rocket-powered third-stage terminal 'dart' separates from the missile, descends to 3 to 5 metres above sea level and accelerates to a supersonic speed of Mach 2.9 in a zigzagging terminal run to hit its target.

The 3M-14E LACM has been designed to destroy ground-based targets and consists of a booster stage and a subsonic low-flying sustainer stage. The onboard control system includes a barometric altimeter used to maintain altitude in terrain-following mode (making the weapon stealthier than designs which rely on radar altimeters), plus a receiver for the Glonass satellite navigation system. The 3M-14E can be launched from either a submarine or a surface vessel. For most of the flight to the target area, the 3M-14E flies autonomously, following the pre-programmed route and turning points. Once over land, it uses a terrain-following flight path that will make it a difficult target for enemy air defences. This low-level flight mode poses a higher load on the wings and missile structure than flight over the sea surface, so the land-attack missile has slightly redesigned wings of shorter span and deeper chord, plus a stronger structure. A jam-resistant radar seeker is used for the final attack phase


75 posted on 03/28/2007 8:03:02 AM PDT by finnman69 (cum puella incedit minore medio corpore sub quo manifestus globus, inflammare animos)
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