The Secret Rulers of the World: The Legend of Ruby Ridge

BBC Channel 4 Video Documentary ^ | ? | Jon Ronson

[amchugh]

This is one part of a five part series done for BBC Channel 4. It focusses on Ruby Ridge and the Weaver family, with some digression into seperatists, conspiracy theorists, etc...

[DainBramage]

No Ive never heard of Lon Horiuchi......

[LiberalBassTurds]

Good evening Michael. I was questioning the veracity of the story and the encounter with the LEOs. Poaching would clearly explain it. As I said earlier, there are two sides to every story and the truth here is somewhere in the middle.

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[LiberalBassTurds]

Ive already had my life threatened in private email on this thread. Most of you are the nutbars people wonder about.

If that's true then that's so far over the top that I am at a loss for words.

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[Religion Moderator]

Ive already had my life threatened in private email on this thread.

Press the abuse report and tell us exactly what happened.

[DainBramage]

And the only people that know what happend at first on that mountain for sure were Weaver and a couple of agents. I dont trust any of them to tell the truth.

Everyonje here acts like they were there too but all they have are the storys of these two entities. Of course Lon Horiuchi has told them all what he was thinking the whole time "I cant wait to kill a women and a kid because of course Im asian" or what actually happen to cause the boy to be shot, a dumb ass scared agent or the boy threatened them or what! Hell his parents were nutjobs and had filled his head with all sorts of crap.. but gosh... Jeff Head says its true.... he's read some books and met Weaver at a book signing with the rest of the bunch. Man! People will believe anybody that sceams "American Government sucks all the time, no matter what".

It all boils down to he knew there was going to be a confrontation and he armed his kid instead of sending them away. Who knows what really happened to get his wife killed. Not anybody here, they werent there.

[Grizzled Bear]

I take it you support the Gestapo tactics of the government in the Ruby Ridge Massacre?

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No basically I think it was murder but I also think Weaver knew where resistance would ultimately lead and he took his family into it.

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bkepley,

If the UN gets it's way and guns are taken from the unwashed plebes in the U.S. what will you do? Will you roll over and take it with smile? After all; resisting tyrants might get your family hurt. Perhaps you might turn in your neighbors who are hiding their rifles. Then your new masters might throw you a "cookie" and let you lick their boots.

If you find what I wrote insulting then I am glad. I really hope I am wrong in my assessment. At the risk of sounding paranoid there are many in the world who want American Liberty brought low and too many within who would throw away what makes the U.S. the greatest nation on earth. It would make it that much easier for the tyrants to control their "property." There will be a day when true patriots must stand in harms way to preserve what we hold precious.

FWIW; It's pretty clear that Weaver wasn't too bright. Bigots rarely are. Besides that, if I were to cut down shot gun barrels I would insist on a 1/2 - 1 inch extra length safety zone. I've been in too many situations where I needed to CMA.

Regardless; there were several dozen things the Feds chose to do that appear designed to inflame the situation. Those people did not need to die.

[LiberalBassTurds]

You are always going to get people who go off half-cocked after hearing one side of a story. They will justify it because they heard that same one side told in different ways from different sources. What always made this site great was critical thinking and analysis. I do believe that despite the emotion on issues such as this most folks still have the ability, and desire, to consider all sides of an issue.

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[bkepley]

Those people did not need to die.

Yeah no kidding and none of them would have if Weaver hadn't gotten involved with a bunch of lunatics. That doesn't mean the Feds weren't guilty too.

[Jeff Head]

As I said, total, unadulterated BS.

I have met Randy Weaver, and I live in Idaho and know exactly what happened up there based omn his accounts, talking with people in that direct area, and talking with his original lawyer.

Randy Weaver did no wrong. The BATF decided that he and his would be good candidates to try and infiltrate the Aryan Nation filth. Randy Weaver served his country honorably and had they come to him straight up and asked, my guess is he would have served again. But that's not what they did. Instead, they sent an agent in under cover to befriend him for several years who then tried to entrap Weaver and coerse him into infiltrating that group.

Weaver told him no and then they determined to make an example out of him. They intentionally sent him a misdated summons and then issued a warrant when he did not show up. They then inserted, again, under cover, officer on his property to surveil he and his family. At some point they decided to act and provoke he and his family because they knew that they always came out when the dog barked.

So, they agitated the dog from cover and when Weaver, his 14 year old son, Sammy, and a friend came out to see what the ruckus was about, one of the officers popped up from behind cover and shot the dog right in front of the 14 year old. Did not announce who he was and then turned his weapon on the kid.

Weaver, who was on the other side of the Ridge yelled for everyone to get back to the house (he never discharged his weapon). The son was shot in the back as he retreated up the hill. In the fire, one of the officers was killed as well and it was later ascertained that he was killed by his own in a friendly fire incident. At that point the marshalls retreated down the hill and called in a lot more help, the full weight of the Federal government against a small family who only wanted to live alone in peace (they had a forced evacuation of all families living within 20 miles of the Weaver cabin), and Weaver and his friend went to the cabin where Weaver found out about his son.

That night Weaver retreived the body of his son and was going out the next morning to spend time with his son's body when he was shot, unannounced by a sniper, Lon Horiuchi. As Weaver, wounded, retreated to the house, Horiuchi fired again, striking Vicki Weaver in the throat as she held a six month old baby in her arms and held the door open for her husband.

Again, Weaver never fired a shot.

So spare me all the talk about how it was Weaver's fault and how he sent his kid out front and center to do battle while (based on your insinuations) Weaver somehow held back. As I said from the get go, it is unadulterated BS and the only question is whether you are spreading it out of ignorance, or knowingly.

I can't read your heart and mind, so I do not know and will let the Man upstairs do that judging...but the truth of the matter is that what you are saying is just plain wrong and bears no resemblance to what happened up there.

That's why Weaver and his friend were found innocent of all murder and death charges and he was only convicted on the original entrapement when the undercover agent aasked him to saw off the end of a shotgun he was buying from Weaver and showed him where to do it.

BTW, Weaver's son and wife were cremnted on the hill top by the Feds when it was all over and Weaver was taken into custody. NO forensic evidence left to study there...all the more reason the jury found as it did...niot only in the crimnal charges by the government, but later in the civil suite as well.

As to threats on your life...and as to "my buds", I do not know what you are talking about. I have not read the entire thread, just responded to your initial post and now to this. There are several hundred thousand people signed up on FreeRepublic from all over the country and the world. I have been here a long time, but know a relative handful of people personally...so, you ought to cut that line of BS as well...it seems like you are stretching all the more with such accusations.

[Grizzled Bear]

My family is fine because I don't get involved with lunatics who end up in shootouts with the Feds.

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Do you recall the old woman who got beat down by Chief of Police Compass' uniformed thugs? They were rounding up the registered fire arms in the aftermath of hurricane Katrina. She told them she had enough food and water. She would take care of her self. A big bastard body slammed this 80 year old woman. The video can be found online. Maybe someone can post a link to the FR thread. Most of the illegally seized weapons have still not been returned to the rightful owners.

Natan Sharansky, a Jewish political prisoner in the Soviet Union, used to joke with his fellow prisoners about cooperating with the government. If you are not good prisoner and you do not cooperate fully they won't give you the swab of iodine on your forehead before they execute you with a gun shot. The iodine is to prevent an infection, of course. Read "Fear no Evil."

[Jeff Head]

That sequence of events was challenged at the trial and the jury did not believe it. If they had, Weaver and Harris would have been found guilty in the death of the marshall...but they weren't. Instead, Weaver and Harris were exonerated in the deaths of the marshall.

According to Weaver and Harris, whom the jury believed, the events were much different and resulted in the death of Sammy (shot in the back) and later Vicki (shot through the throat as she held her baby), as well as the marshall (killed by friendly fire).

The government (like in Waco) is the entity that should have been on trial here. The blood of those innocents, as well as the blood of those at Waco, has not had any justice whatsoewver done by them. It is a travesty and a disgrace.ntested and the jury believed the Weavers...thus he and

[bkepley]

Do you recall the old woman who got beat down by Chief of Police Compass' uniformed thugs?

Shot by imperfect human beings in an imperfect world. This isn't the USSR.

[LiberalBassTurds]

Jeff, you brought up a curious point above that I had never heard nor read before...that the Marshall died from friendly fire. Where did you find that data?

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[LiberalBassTurds]

And simply 'cause I can't resist...

That sequence of events was challenged at the trial and the jury did not believe it. If they had, Weaver and Harris would have been found guilty in the death of the marshall...but they weren't. Instead, Weaver and Harris were exonerated in the deaths of the marshall.

a jury found OJ not gulity too. :-)

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[cpdiii]

In effect Horrachie was part of an FBI SWAT team. Discipline must be 100% and orders obeyed instantly. In the field they would not have the luxury of second guessing their commanders. If Horrachie had the luxury of analyzing the situation, the legality of the rules of engagement, the circumstances under which the FBI agent was killed he would probably not have pulled the trigger. The members of the SWAT team must have faith in their commanders and the judgement of their commanders. If they do not have this faith it is no longer a team and becomes a bunch of men with guns trying to do a job and without a plan or leadership. In this case their faith was misplaced. Yes, cold blooded murder occurred that day. The murderer was not Horrachie but his commanders.

This is far different than the war crimes of the Nazis. The Nazis committed these crimes day after day for years. The men that followed those orders knew what they were doing and knew it was wrong.

I fault my government for not putting the commanders at Ruby Ridge on trial for murder.

[Grizzled Bear]

Poaching? Does it matter in this case? Is that why the Feds came after them, just as the Weavers believed the government was going to do, and killed two of them?

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Damn; do they break your knees for jaywalking?

[LiberalBassTurds]

As stated earlier Grizzled that wasn't my point. My point was related to the fact that they were supposedly deer hunting (which conflicts with what Jeff just posted above) in August. Someone else then said they were poaching.

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[Jeff Head]

They never matched the bullet to the Weaver's or Harris's weapon. That would have been a slam dunk against them from the government's perspective. So who else was firing on the hill that day?

I called Weaver's original attorney in Boise several years ago and ased him about that and about the runmor that had been going for many months that Sammy and Vicki were cremated on the hill. He couldn;t come right out and say it, but he told me that Sammy and Vicki were not taken off the hill and that the feds disposed of their bodies...that's as far as he would go.

But more info direct and compelling info comes from Bo Gritz remarks and from trial testimony about the incident after he successfully negotiated an end to the stand-off. Here's what he said about what happened to degan.

Kevin Harris was next on the scene. Harris was a tall, 25 year old with gentle features. He had fallen some distance behind as Sammy ran ahead to catch Striker. Kevin moved to pick Sammy up, but was driven off by a din of automatic weapons fire. Senior Deputy U.S. Marshal William F. Degan, Jr., 42, was a hero, the most honored Marshal in 203-years of service. Seeking to get a better shot at Kevin, he left his covered position and fired on the run (seven shell-casing strung out behind) as he moved toward the trail. Degan crossed directly in front of Larry Cooper. Cooper testified: "I aimed at the target and pulled the trigger. The target fell like a sack of potatoes." The first bullet struck Degan’s tactical backpack spinning him to the left (shown in court). The second round went through his chest. Degan’s last words were directed toward Cooper: "Coop...I...you...," but it was already too late. It was the first time since 1951 that a U.S. Marshal was killed in Idaho.

At this point, having years of close combat experience, I can describe with high confidence what happened. Degan, unlike Cooper, was used to being under fire. Unable to hear Cooper’s silenced rounds, Degan crossed his line of fire. I have observed many inexperienced men doing their best to control fear as they engage the enemy. As any Vietnam combat infantry vet will tell you, it was typical to see new men firing from ambush with their arms over-head, and faces down! William Degan was shot by one of his own, while he maneuvered to kill Harris in the fusillade of fire. Cooper, admittedly afraid, had no idea his target was the running camouflaged Degan. Indeed, Degan did fall like a sack of potatoes.

[LiberalBassTurds]

Jeff, very interesting stuff. Thanks for posting it. A good catalyst for some more digging on my part.

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[Grizzled Bear]

This isn't the USSR.

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New Orleans may not be the USSR, but I would not put my safety in the hands of Nagin or Compass.

The "authorities" in DC are freaking out over their residents regaining their constitutionally declared right to keep and bare arms. The criminals always had them. This will only allow honest people a chance to protect themselves.