Posted on 03/16/2007 9:50:21 AM PDT by kiriath_jearim
TWIN FALLS - Red's Trading Post, one of Idaho's oldest gun shops, can trade no longer.
The U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives has revoked the business's license to buy, trade or obtain guns after an ATF audit found Red's employees sold guns improperly numerous times between 1999 and 2004.
Red's manager, Ryan Horsley, admits when the business sold guns it sometimes left blank required parts of a gun purchase form, omitted a background check on a special order, failed to log multiple handgun sales to the same customer in five working days, did not keep track of guns returned to manufacturers, threw away denied applications dealers are required to keep for 20 years and failed to post a gun safety sign and pamphlets.
The ATF revoked Red's license March 5, shutting down 90 percent of the income that has sustained the store through three generations of Horsleys.
"They are taking very minor things and blowing them out of proportion," said Terry Horsley, the shop's owner and Ryan's mother.
The shop, at 215 Shoshone St. South, can sell the 1,000 guns remaining in its inventory, and can continue selling gun accessories and ammunition.
But accessories account for only 10 percent of its revenue.
"I'm just sitting here going, 'What am I going to do?,'" Ryan Horsley said.
The five-year audit found violations over a period in which 10,000 guns were sold, Horsley said.
"Mistakes happen. Stuff happens," Horsley said. "I think it's unreal expecting to have 100 percent non errors."
The bad news, which comes on the heels of record profits, could now close the store, Terry Horsley said.
Red's has paid $20,000 in legal fees protesting the ATF's decision. On Feb. 23, Red's legal team filed a petition in federal court in Boise.
The judicial review will consider, among other things, whether Red's "willfully" violated the law.
"'Not willful' is one of their petitions," said Deborah Ferguson, assistant U.S. attorney, representing the ATF's industry operations. "'Willful has been defined by case law. I would expect the court to look at that legal authority."
Case law defines "willful," an essential component of the allegations, as "they knew of the regulations and did not abide by them," Ferguson said.
Ryan Horsley said Red's was found responsible of several violations in an earlier audit.
But he said the infractions are petty and do not justify a revoked license.
"There's no missing guns," he said. "There are errors but everyone has errors."
Walt Sinclair, a Boise co-counsel for Red's, said the errors were clerical, not intentional.
He said it's not the first time the ATF has revoked the license of a Twin Falls gun dealership.
"Blue Lakes Sporting Goods lost its license," Sinclair said. "They had been there forever. It was a family business. It was a real success story, but this type of petty, technical noncompliance caused them to end up going out of business."
The ATF has 60 days from Feb. 23 to respond Red's petition.
The ATF Seattle Field Office spokeswoman declined to comment on Red's case until after judicial review.
"If the individuals reapply, the facts from the revocation would be considered for any future licenses," said spokeswoman Julianne Marshall. "Industry Operations will consider their application. However, they have an interest for public safety. This license was revoked for a reason."
A judge may still overturn ATF's decision.
Just curious? What would you do if you were confronted with this same, or a similar situation, if BATF came knocking on your door?
I said nothing about paperwork, onerous or otherwise. I referred to the vast expansion of federal power under the umbrella of the Commerce cause. (A cherished goal of Leftists.) Do you deny that such an expansion has occurred?
There is no limit given in the Constitution. The founder's assumed commerce would be regulated to flourish, not regulated out of existence, so no limit was given. As Franklin said at the closing of the Convention, that the Constitution wasn't perfect, it was left up to the future what folks would make of it.
That is where we disagree. I believe that the Constitution is clear that Congress may regulate trade that across state boundaries (i.e., interstate commerce) to ensure that states do not erect trade barriers against each other. That power did not originally extend to manufacturing, agriculture, or local business.
Under your "no limits" concept, there is effectively nothing that can restrict the power of the Federal government, which is to say that the Constitution is largely a dead letter.
I would never allow myself to be at the mercy of the BATFE by obtaining an FFL because I fear the murderous, low-life bastards.
So, do you feel all warm and fuzzy, knowing that law-abiding citizens fear for their lives from their government, but criminals don't?
With your logic then the entire Department of Immigration and Naturalization Service oops change name to U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services should close their business as they also need to follow rules and laws that our Congress passed which they violate daily.
Our country would function quite nicely, and there'd be much more freedom - of the type created by our founders, if the BATF (and OSHA, for that matter), went away.
This guy and his family, employees, and community are getting railroaded by a bunch of jack-booted thugs using bureaucratic diktats and the barrel of a gun as their "legitimate" reason for RUINING good people's lives.
On the bright side, at least THIS time, they're not severely injuring or murdering anyone.
"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus
We arent so different. That is why I didnt get a C&R liscence. Its not worth the intrusion
Yep, those accounting errors might give someone a paper cut.
So now, all this guys records become property of the government to be entered into databases and tracked as a defacto registration right?
See post 74. Red's say less than 1%, which would be less than 100, not 6 or 7. On the one hand that's over 6 or 7 years, on the other the paperwork isn't that onerous, and he admits to the paper that they consiously omitted a background check in at least one "special" case, failed to report multiple handgun purchases, and discarded denials. Those are conscious acts, violations of the law, not sloppy paperwork.
It's worth noting that the alternative to gun dealers maintaining the paperwork is a government registry, which they'd be happy to maintain.
No, that includes catagory errors. The number of errors is higher. It's sloppy and careless. If you can't look at every sales form and make sure every single one is filled out, there's a problem. There's also a problem if the background check boxes are not filled in, or no paperwork is created for a transfer back to the distributor. This is really simple paperwork. Also, that's 10000 in eight years, and the count is for recent violations. That's 3.4 guns/day. Tell me handling 3.4 pieces of paper/day is an onerous and tough thing to accomplish.
"most of these arbitrary BATFE infringements shouldn't even exist,"
The Constitution gives Congress the power to regulate commerce. This guy's involved in commerce, and the regs are much less extensive and bureaucratic, than even ditchdigging, or roadcrew work.
"don't be too happy about this guys business going down the tubes."
I never said I was happy. The guy should have taken care to clean up his op after the first audit. Maybe he did for awhile, but reverted back to his old ways.
Failure to report multiple purchases, to do background checks, and to maintain records of denials. In fact they're at the heart of the law. You may consider the law unconstitutional, but your opinion doesn't release Red's or any dealer from following it. Whether this was a pattern of evasion, or simply monumentally stupid management, it's hard to tell. The courts will have to sort that one out.
What part of the word "infringed" do you find confusing?
Oh, we've regulated away big chunks of our rights, on this we agree. However, the people at Red's knew they were charged with following certain rules - which they evidently did *most* of the time.
The part that burns me up is that Red's was an *old* shop. Because of the repeated screw-ups, every damned 4473 form in the place will be turned over to BATFE. There's no legal prohibition against the BATFE keeping a database of gun purchase data, when said data comes from FFLs whose licenses are revoked or surrendered. Countless transactions at Red's pre-dated the electronic background check requirements... but you can bet those purchasers will be in the database soon.
Surely you know better than THAT!
Sadly that is true. I bet Ryan doesnt lose THOSE records.
That's a .07% error rate. Kind of small. Should the IRS apply this standard to taxpayers? Even better; shouldn't journalists be held to that standard or lose their right to write?
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