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Live Thread - House Oversight and Government Reform Cmte. hearing (Valerie Plame Wilson Testifies)
Cspan ^ | March 16, 2007

Posted on 03/16/2007 5:55:58 AM PDT by Mo1

Edited on 03/16/2007 5:57:55 AM PDT by Admin Moderator. [history]

ON CAPITOL HILL Valerie Wilson Testifies

Rep. Henry Waxman (D-CA) chairs a House Oversight and Government Reform Ctme. hearing on the disclosure of CIA Agent Valerie Plame Wilson's identity. The hearing will look into whether White House officials followed appropriate procedures for safeguarding the identity of Ms. Wilson.

FRIDAY, C-SPAN AT 10AM ET


TOPICS: Breaking News
KEYWORDS: 007; bs; cia; cialeak; deskjockey; henrywaxman; hogwash; iraq; liarplame; mrswannabebondslut; nonsense; notatrisk; officespace; paperpusher; plame; teachingthegop; unclassifiedposition; valerieplame; valeriewilson; waxman; wilson; wmd
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To: pinz-n-needlez
They are using and abusing language to bring down the government.

Yes they are. And you are right. We need to be very precise with language. I have become quite the pest on the Gen. Pace says homosexuality is immoral threads (those here are on his side, quite naturally), pointing out that he called homosexual ACTS immoral. He did not say that being a homosexual is in itself immoral.

It is much more important that that those who speak to the press and go on tv correct these incorrect statements everytime they are made. It's more important than their own talking points.

1,361 posted on 03/16/2007 5:03:43 PM PDT by Bahbah (Regev, Goldwasser & Shalit, we are praying for you.)
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To: DalcoTX

Delegates are members of the House of Representatives. They are therefore called Congressmen.


1,362 posted on 03/16/2007 5:12:19 PM PDT by Sam Hill
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To: Sam Hill
You are correct. A non-voting (except for committees) member, but a member none the less. CSPAN captions refer to her as Del. Norton or Del. Holmes-Norton.
1,363 posted on 03/16/2007 5:19:59 PM PDT by DalcoTX
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To: Mo1
Andy McCarthy on "covert": "Valerie Plame Wilson said in her testimony that she continued to be "covert" while working at Langley — long after her assignment overseas — because she had been covert while working overseas. Her analogy was to a general in the army. A general, she said, remains a general even if he is rotated from combat overseas to a post in the U.S. This seems pretty silly to me. It conflates RANK with STATUS. The better analogy, I think, would be to a DEA or FBI undercover agent. When the agent is on the undercover assignment, he/she is "covert"; when the agency ends the U/C assignment and transfers the agent (often to a supervisory position), the agent is no longer covert, even though aspects of the former assignment remain closely guarded. Obviously, when an undercover agent moves onto new, non-undercover responsibilities, that does not mean all entanglements of the covert assignment are over. If, for example, there were classified aspects of the assignment (e.g., the agent's cover was a sham corporation that the agency is still using for undercover purposes), or if the agent, while covert, reported information that is still regarded as sensitive or classified intelligence, all that remains closely guarded (perhaps even classified). So, to that extent, it can still be said that the agent has "covert" responsibilities. BUT, that doesn't mean his or her day-to-day responsibilities are any longer covert. The agent, for example, walks in and out of headquarters everyday, like hundreds of other people, because there is no longer any imperative to conceal his/her connection to the agency." Covert
1,364 posted on 03/16/2007 5:20:13 PM PDT by the Real fifi
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To: pinz-n-needlez
This is purely a lawyer game. They are using and abusing language to bring down the government

Yep and technically .. yes she was covert .. once upon a time

Waxman didn't want VT to even bring up the " under the statute" part

1,365 posted on 03/16/2007 5:21:06 PM PDT by Mo1 ( http://www.gohunter08.com)
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To: Txsleuth
I think I'm gonna need to take SOP pills (stupid and oblivious) to get through the next 18 mos; either that, or find some long-term, totally engrossing and exciting adventure ..


1,366 posted on 03/16/2007 5:23:39 PM PDT by STARWISE (They (Rats) think of this WOT as Bush's war, not America's war-RichardMiniter, respected OBL author)
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To: the Real fifi

I've mentioned this several times before. The intel agencies have better things to do than to be constantly monitoring and changing people's personnel files.

A person who was "covert" at some point (whether under official cover, which is what Plame probably was -- or non-official cover (which is very rare) would retain that simply through inertia.

The IIPA was originally intended to protect intel officers working undercover in the field. (That is, overseas.) The people who were outing them at Covert Action Quarterly didn't dream that they could get them killed at home. (Those were different times.)

As Toensing said, originally the law was to only cover those overseas. Then, because officers can be rotated home, it was extended to those who had been "stationed" overseas for three and then finally five years.

Plame was not covert under the law. She was covert because the blue-haired ladies in "human resources" were too lazy to make her "non-covert."


1,367 posted on 03/16/2007 5:28:23 PM PDT by Sam Hill
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To: Bahbah

You are so right to do that.

I remember conversations with my mother back in the 60's, after Vatican II, over whether homosexuals could become priests.

She contended that they could. Because they would be bound by vows of celibacy just as heterosexual men would be. To 'be' something, to have an inclination toward a specific type of behavior is very different from *acting* on that behavior.

Well, the priest thing didn't work too well, since the vow of celibacy was violated.

That's what Pace was talking about. To have the inclination is immaterial under DADT. Acting on it is immoral, just as sleeping with another service man's wife is immoral.

The activists seem to be talking about turning the military into a traveling San Francisco orgy. And the General is right to speak out against that.

Sorry to be so off topic.


1,368 posted on 03/16/2007 5:29:15 PM PDT by pinz-n-needlez (Jack Bauer wears Tony Snow pajamas)
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To: DalcoTX

They do that where they would normally refer to a Representative as a Rep. But she isn't a Representative. She is a Delegate.


1,369 posted on 03/16/2007 5:31:14 PM PDT by Sam Hill
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To: the Real fifi

Thanks, the Real fifi.

Did you see my post above, about Victoria trying valiantly to clarify the use of this term, and Waxman trying to muzzle her every attempt?


1,370 posted on 03/16/2007 5:31:31 PM PDT by pinz-n-needlez (Jack Bauer wears Tony Snow pajamas)
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To: STARWISE

LOL Great pic!

We need your pings and clear thinking! How else will the rest of us get through this.

And if we're lucky and avoid a Dem president, then we'll have another 4 years to get through. Not sure if that is good news or bad news. :-/


1,371 posted on 03/16/2007 5:33:37 PM PDT by pinz-n-needlez (Jack Bauer wears Tony Snow pajamas)
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Comment #1,372 Removed by Moderator

To: pinz-n-needlez

Yeppers....I noticed that, but the MSM won't..dems won't...and regular Americans that get their news from the MSM and Hairball will NEVER know the difference....sadly.


1,373 posted on 03/16/2007 5:34:35 PM PDT by Txsleuth (I don't know who I am voting for yet...just window shopping.)
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To: pinz-n-needlez
Off topic! Not at all. It's a specific example, but the point is generally applicable. We allow the issue to be framed (actually distorted) over and over again. We have several generations untrained in careful listening and analyzing. The point has do be pounded home over and over in every venue, not just the "new media."All misstatements must be corrected every single time they are uttered.
1,374 posted on 03/16/2007 5:36:27 PM PDT by Bahbah (Regev, Goldwasser & Shalit, we are praying for you.)
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To: CommonSense5

You signed up just to ask that question?

Toensing was using the word in the only way that the law has so far defined it.

AFAIK, it is not even a term of art at the CIA. You are simply working with official or non-official cover. And when you are not under either of those, you are not.


1,375 posted on 03/16/2007 5:36:29 PM PDT by Sam Hill
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To: Sam Hill

Today's hearing also suggests to me that they worked hard to get her name out there, while putting Bush fingerprints on the process, just to use this law as they twisted and mutilated it to make it useful for their nefarious purposes.

This whole thing in contrived from the get-go.

And I'm sure they're seeding Washington with other non-scandal scandals, just in case this one comes crashing down around them.


1,376 posted on 03/16/2007 5:37:09 PM PDT by pinz-n-needlez (Jack Bauer wears Tony Snow pajamas)
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To: CommonSense5; GRRRRR

One freebie for the potential troll:

No, I'm saying that Victoria was pointing out the careful parsing that they (Plame, Wilson, Waxman, etc.) were engaged in to twist the definition of 'covert' to their purpose.


1,377 posted on 03/16/2007 5:39:06 PM PDT by pinz-n-needlez (Jack Bauer wears Tony Snow pajamas)
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To: Sam Hill

Welcome to all of our new friends....


1,378 posted on 03/16/2007 5:40:27 PM PDT by pinz-n-needlez (Jack Bauer wears Tony Snow pajamas)
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To: pinz-n-needlez

"Today's hearing also suggests to me that they worked hard to get her name out there, while putting Bush fingerprints on the process, just to use this law as they twisted and mutilated it to make it useful for their nefarious purposes."

Joe Wilson "outed" his wife at the very latest when he attended a Democrat Senate Policy meeting on May 2, 2003.

That same meeting was attended by Nicolas Kristof of the New York Times. Two days later, Wilson and Plame had breakfast with Kristof.

Then Kristof wrote the first article anywhere about Wilson's mission. He had surely been told about Plame, to give Wilson's story more credibility.

Wilson never had any complaints about Bush's SOTU address, until after that meeting with the Senate Democrats. And later, Wilson said he began to work for the Kerry campaign in May 2003.

This isn't too complicated if you keep that timeline in mind.

When And Where Joseph Wilson Changed His Story | Sweetness & Light
http://www.sweetness-light.com/archive/when-and-where-joe-wilson-changed-his-story


1,379 posted on 03/16/2007 5:42:00 PM PDT by Sam Hill
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To: Sam Hill
Plame was not covert under the law.

Do you think it should be the policy of the Government to publicly disclose all employees of the CIA?

1,380 posted on 03/16/2007 5:42:21 PM PDT by Doe Eyes
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