Posted on 03/14/2007 3:08:45 PM PDT by RedRover
An attorney representing the commander of the American troops involved in the so-called "Haditha massacre" says the military rules of engagement have become so subjective that troops must look over their shoulders before they can fight the enemy. Brian Rooney is with the Thomas More Law Center, which is representing Lieutenant Colonel Jeffrey Chessani, a Marine officer charged with failing to investigate fully the events at Haditha, Al Anbar, Iraq and failing to report a Law of War violation.
Rooney says the Marines involved acted properly during the November 19, 2005, incident that led to the death of 15 Iraqi civilians. "If there's a hostile act against a Marine or hostile intent against a Marine, you can use deadly force to counter that hostile act or hostile intent," he explains.
But unfortunately, sometimes the determination "becomes subjective to who's observing it from the outside [as to] whether or not the Marines acted reasonably or not," the lawyer notes. In these instances, he says, it depends on who is doing the observing.
Ironically, Chessani had an attorney on the scene, who is also in trouble, as "he's been charged himself, Captain Stone, with dereliction of duty and -- I believe -- orders violations," Rooney points out. "So it's out for everybody, this politically charged investigation that has occurred," he says.
An Article 32 hearing for Colonel Chessani is scheduled for March 21. Rooney is confident his client did not do anything wrong. And it is unfair, the Law Center spokesman suggests, to try to judge the reasonableness of the Marines actions after the fact, removed from the context of the situation the soldiers faced in the Haditha incident.
One simply "can't do that," the attorney insists. "You have to go from the mindset of the Marine at the time, with what's going on," he says, "because, ultimately, you may end up killing civilians and you not mean it; but with what's going on in your mind at the time, you could be acting quite reasonably."
Rooney says the military's rules of engagement have become so subjective that it is increasingly difficult for troops to do their job in battle. The Thomas More Law Center , a national public interest law firm based in Ann Arbor, Michigan, announced March 6 that it would be defending Lieutenant Colonel Chessani against the military's charges in what has become a highly politically charged case.
And Sandy Berger was just distracted when he put those papers in his pants.
The incompetence or ruthlessness (pick one) of NCIS agents destroyed Pantano's career as a Marine.
Pantano's defense team (including Marine JAGs) cleared him.
"Whatever" is a chickencrap response to the loss of an outstanding Marine officer--especially in a time of war.
It doesn't. The fact that they did has already be established and is evidence in the case. The press release from Camp Blue Diamond, which said ~15 victims died as the result of an IED explosion was caught very quickly and resulted in the USDOD paying off the families for wrongful deaths. It was established that the false press release was due to the filing of false field reports. Chessani's failure to investigate and clear up the matter is why he's been charged.
Had the field reports been accurate and indicated they hit the houses as they said, after being hit with an IED, then fired upon brom the houses, I doubt anything would have ever come of this. The actions as given subsequent to the discovery of the false field reports, are according to the ROE, because they were attacked and it was said the fire came from the houses. The combination of false field reports and 15 civilian deaths and no arms found in the first 2 houses looks bad.
The only relevant evidence the Iraqi complainants ever had, is that the civilians were not killed by an IED. Anything else they claim is irrelevant, because they failed to allow an autopsy. Other Marines have pics from immediately after the scene, which are an indication of what happened, and what those on the entry team were confronted with.
"And Sandy Berger was just distracted when he put those papers in his pants.
Irrelevant.
"The incompetence or ruthlessness (pick one) of NCIS agents destroyed Pantano's career as a Marine."
Nonsense. Pantano destroyed his own career by his own behavior. Pantano's accuser in the incident was Sgt Coburn, not some "terrorists", or the NCIS. THe NCIS cleared him, as I said. The facts of the matter.
"Pantano's defense team (including Marine JAGs) cleared him.
No.
""Whatever" is a chickencrap response to the loss of an outstanding Marine officer--especially in a time of war."
Whatever.
The poster above is missing the point. The lieutenant colonel's defense team is speaking out on the case itself on behalf of the accused. I admire Chessani for this very much. He's not throwing his men to the wolves which others have done in his place.
But I wouldn't go as far as you in terms of suggesting so much has been lost either. We lost in 2006 because our base fractured itself and did not turn out! (mainly for domestic reasons....that foolishly fractured us) - It is not like the DEMs went out and gained all sorts of new voters.
With that said, without question the RNC should (and the WH must!) go on the offensive in terms of the WOT and resetting the record straight.
But make no mistake, this CINC is serving his job extremely well in terms of keeping his resolve and staying true to our fighting men and women by accepting no less then victory (and giving us the means to achieve victory).
The "fact" that the 4 Marines charged with murder, falsified evidence has not been established. I believe the facts of what happened that day were radioed in correctly at the time.
The way I'm reading your post is that you think the Marines on the scene lied and somehow this lie justifies them being charged with murder. Even if you believe they lied, how does this justify possibly being locked up for the rest of their lives under murder charges? This doesn't make sense to me logically.
Re. Lt. Col. Chessani and the other 3 in command,
..."June 16, 2006: The report by Maj. Gen. Bargewell into training and preparation of Marines prior to the Haditha incident and the reporting of information concerning the incident is forwarded to Lt. Gen. Chiarelli, the top U.S. commander in Iraq. The report finds no evidence of a cover-up, but instead finds that officers failed to ask the right questions or press the Marines about what happened."
(From NPR) http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6661677
Wait, I thought the NCIS cleared him. You still think he's guilty?
Whatever.
Generally, people on Free Republic support the troops. Sorry you're an exception.
Good points to keep in mind, DevSix, in looking at the big picture in the WOT.
It doesn't matter what the radio reports contained, or what you think has been established. SSgt Wuterich falsified his field report, and said the Iraquis were killed in the IED explosion. That IS established and was one of the documents used to generate the false press release from Camp Blue Diamond after the incident. Field reports are used to generate press releases, not radio transmissions.
"The way I'm reading your post is that you think the Marines on the scene lied and somehow this lie justifies them being charged with murder."
SSgt Wuterich filed a false field report and there were no terrorists killed in the first 2 houses. The Corps says that those killed in the first 2 houses were wrongful deaths and the DOD paid those families for the wrongful deaths.
Re. Lt. Col. Chessani and the other 3 in command,
"The report finds no evidence of a cover-up, but instead finds that officers failed to ask the right questions or press the Marines about what happened."
Lt Col Chessani is charged with failure to investigate, and the reports comments posted don't address the actions of those involved. There's also been additional investigation and additional findings since then.
"Even if you believe they lied, how does this justify possibly being locked up for the rest of their lives under murder charges? This doesn't make sense to me logically. "
The court will determine what happened. The only reason they would be locked up would be if the court determines their actions were not justified and they committed a crime(s).
America is unworthy of such heroes!
Okay, since you seem so sure of yourself on this issue, can you please refer to me public reports that back up your specifics? Or, do you have access to the 13,000 page NCIS report? If so, do you know where the NCIS report is published so I can read up on it?
"Wait, I thought the NCIS cleared him. You still think he's guilty?
Apparently grasping what's been clearly said is very difficult for you. I said Pantano was cleared. That means he's not guilty. What ruined his career was his own actions, not the allegations brought against him by the Sgt.
Re: Whatever.
"Generally, people on Free Republic support the troops. Sorry you're an exception."
The Corps doesn't support the filling of false field reports, any unjustified, or unprofessional actions, or failures by battalion commanders to insure the accuracy of their reports and performance of those under their command. Niether do I. As far as your ad hominems... Whatever.
Its possible they were made generals/admirals BECAUSE they are idiots..
Clinton HATED the military, still does, and his wife does too, also..
You're really going to have to explain that to me, spunk. How could the actions of an innocent man ruin his career?
And, out of curiosity, did you also think Pantano was guilty when he was accused?
Why don't you try waiting for the hearings before deciding who's guilty?
"HADITHA, Iraq (Reuters) - A roadside bomb that killed a U.S. Marine in the restive town of Haditha on Saturday also killed 15 Iraqi civilians and led to intense clashes with insurgents, the U.S. military said on Sunday. The powerful bomb detonated as a U.S. military convoy was passing through the town, a militant stronghold on the Euphrates river about 220 km northwest of Baghdad. Immediately after the blast, gunmen opened fire on the convoy, the U.S. military said in a statement. U.S. and Iraqi soldiers returned fire, killing eight insurgents and wounding another(taxi driver) in a firefight."
He works day and night trying to figure out how to grant amnesty to the 20 million illegals here and how the US taxpayer can help sustain the rest of Latin America.
Okay. Whether I'm familiar or not with how press releases are generated does not take away the possiblity of mistakes in reporting- whereever or however it may have happened It still does not translate into murder charges.
I doubt we're going to change each other's minds on presumption of guilt or innocence at this point. I'll presume they are innocent. You can choose for yourself.
"You're really going to have to explain that to me, spunk. How could the actions of an innocent man ruin his career?"
The first move was a decision that he no longer desired to act like a professional, a Marine officer. The second was his decision not to be one anymore.
"And, out of curiosity, did you also think Pantano was guilty when he was accused?"
It was the Lt's word against the Sgt's and those who failed to back the Lt.
"Why don't you try waiting for the hearings before deciding who's guilty?"
Did I say anyone was guilty of anything, other than failure to investigate and SSgt Wuterich's filing of a false after action report? If Chessani had acted, as he should have at the discovery of the false press release and the false after action report that generated it, he wouldn't be in the predicament he's in. I trust NCIS and the Corps will determine what went down otherwise.
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