Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Romney says government was wrong in Schiavo case
St. Petersburg Times ^ | March 11, 2007 | Adam C. Smith

Posted on 03/11/2007 7:40:49 PM PDT by EternalVigilance

TAMPA -- He's campaigning hard for support from Republican social conservatives, but presidential candidate Mitt Romney said Saturday he disagreed with the government's intervention in the Terri Schiavo case.

"I think it's probably best to leave these kinds of matters in the hands of the courts," Romney said in a television interview airing today.

(Excerpt) Read more at orlandosentinel.com ...


TOPICS: Front Page News; Politics/Elections; US: Florida
KEYWORDS: electionpresident; elections; euthanasia; judicialtyranny; moralabsolutes; romney; romneyschiavo; schiavo; shiavo; terri; terrischiavo
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 821-840841-860861-880 ... 941-951 next last
To: 8mmMauser

Oh, my goodness, what is it about restaurant workers? Dominique's murderer worked at a restaurant. Terri's killer worked at a restaurant too.


841 posted on 03/16/2007 10:40:42 AM PDT by T'wit (Visitors: the good news is, lots of people have agreed with you. The bad news is, they were Nazis.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 821 | View Replies]

To: T'wit

I have asked three times, politely, whether you have even seen the x-rays that supposedly refute the theory. You have not given me any answer. Let's start there. Have you?

No, I haven't. They haven't been released - and if you know differently, please point me to them. However, as I've cited repeatedly, the autopsy report mentions them, and states unequivocally that no fractures were recorded on the x-rays from her intial hospitalization. That has not been challenged AFAIK by any of the Schindler's attorneys.

I'm afraid I don't have time to read or respond to further posts now, so I'll resume tonight.

842 posted on 03/16/2007 10:43:42 AM PDT by retMD
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 837 | View Replies]

To: retMD
>> Sorry - doing searches and then "find within" means I skip over all sorts of stuff I'd rather not see.

Nothing to apologize for.

The cheerleaders were the good stuff anyway :-)

843 posted on 03/16/2007 10:44:46 AM PDT by T'wit (Visitors: the good news is, lots of people have agreed with you. The bad news is, they were Nazis.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 826 | View Replies]

To: retMD
>> Actually I'd like to see all the chemistry results and blood gas results if you know where to find them..

Do a search for Humana's discharge papers on Terri.

844 posted on 03/16/2007 10:46:28 AM PDT by T'wit (Visitors: the good news is, lots of people have agreed with you. The bad news is, they were Nazis.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 808 | View Replies]

To: retMD
>> No, I haven't. They haven't been released - and if you know differently, please point me to them. However, as I've cited repeatedly, the autopsy report mentions them, and states unequivocally that no fractures were recorded on the x-rays from her intial hospitalization. That has not been challenged AFAIK by any of the Schindler's attorneys.

Then we are all at the mercy of the statements of Dr. Jon Thogmartin, with no way to cross-check the information. I have never criticized the man, but have to point out that he, like the rest of us, is fallible.

We are also at the mercy of an inference that may well be unwarranted -- that the injuries would have been detected. Maybe they would have, maybe not.

Should Terri's injuries be absolutely ruled out by x-rays and other tests at Humana, we have..... two unsolved mysteries for the price of one! What caused her cardiac arrest on 2/25/90? And when did she receive the additional injuries shown in Dr. Walker's bone scan/correlative radiographs?

The one sensible -- and statistically far the most likely -- answer to this is that she was the victim of domestic violence, and that the anoxic insult and the trauma both resulted from that incident.

845 posted on 03/16/2007 11:15:25 AM PDT by T'wit (Visitors: the good news is, lots of people have agreed with you. The bad news is, they were Nazis.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 842 | View Replies]

To: retMD
>> That has not been challenged AFAIK by any of the Schindler's attorneys.

Attorneys? The case was over.

846 posted on 03/16/2007 11:51:03 AM PDT by T'wit (Visitors: the good news is, lots of people have agreed with you. The bad news is, they were Nazis.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 842 | View Replies]

To: retMD
During her initial hospitalization, she received twenty-three chest radiographs, three brain CT scans, two abdominal radiographs, two echocardiograms, one abdominal ultrasound, one cervical spine radiograph, and one radiograph of her right knee. No fractures or trauma were reported or recorded."

It seems strange that none of those radiographs or documents showed up in the 2003 hearing when Michael Schiavo's attorney was trying to distance Michael from the Walker bone scan report. It would only make sense to hit Walker with those, no? On another note of interest which seems to diminish your theory:

-------------------------------------------------------------------

MR. SWOPE: I just have one follow-up
19 question on recross.
20 EXAMINATION OF DR. WALKER - 2003
21 BY MR. SWOPE:

22 Q You mentioned that you have seen
23 fractures in bedridden patients before?

24 A Yes.

25 Q How frequently have you seen that?

? 67

1 A Rare.

2 Q It's rare?

3 A Yes.

4 Q More than once?

5 A Well, I have been in practice now since
6 1980, so I would say more than once in that period
7 of time.

8 Q Do you have any idea how many fractures
9 you've seen in bedridden patients?

10 A I would be guessing. Less than six.

11 MR. SWOPE: No other questions.
12 EXAMINATION

13 BY MS. ANDERSON:

14 Q Have those fractures occurred in elderly
15 patients?

16 A Typically, because typically those are
17 the patients that we see in this area, yes.

18 MS. ANDERSON: No further questions.

847 posted on 03/16/2007 2:04:23 PM PDT by bjs1779
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 807 | View Replies]

To: retMD
one cervical spine radiograph,

That would tend to mean that it was only shot from only one angle also.

848 posted on 03/16/2007 2:53:41 PM PDT by bjs1779
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 807 | View Replies]

To: T'wit
Should Terri's injuries be absolutely ruled out by x-rays and other tests at Humana, we have..... two unsolved mysteries for the price of one! What caused her cardiac arrest on 2/25/90? And when did she receive the additional injuries shown in Dr. Walker's bone scan/correlative radiographs?

Remember when the nurse's notes mentioned that Terri's bed railing was left down and they let him know about it? He said "That's your job". Isn't he adorable!?

849 posted on 03/16/2007 3:01:25 PM PDT by bjs1779
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 845 | View Replies]

To: retMD
Can you prove that L1 didn't show up on the abdominal x-rays?

I think I misspoke on a post above. The cervical x-ray was the the one I mistakingly referred to. Still, if Michael's defense lawyers had them or even a summary of them, they would of brought them up to Walker in 2003 I would think. Do they normally study the spine from the front?

850 posted on 03/16/2007 3:23:22 PM PDT by bjs1779
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 824 | View Replies]

To: retMD
Dr. Walker's x-rays showed the injury over a year later, when she had been immobile for over a year, with all the bone abnormality that brings.

That can be misleading. Dr. Walker said, as a rule of thumb the nuclear bone scan detects breaks for up to 18 months. If that was roughly the window of Terri's injuries, Feb. 25 1990 is still in that envelope.

851 posted on 03/16/2007 3:38:12 PM PDT by bjs1779
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 824 | View Replies]

To: retMD
However, as I've cited repeatedly, the autopsy report mentions them, and states unequivocally that no fractures were recorded on the x-rays from her intial hospitalization.

Just to be clear, L1 is lumbar, right? Was there a lumbar x-ray mentioned in the M'E.'s report?

852 posted on 03/16/2007 3:54:01 PM PDT by bjs1779
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 842 | View Replies]

To: Terriergal

That was not what we were discussing.


853 posted on 03/16/2007 4:26:12 PM PDT by retMD
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 838 | View Replies]

To: T'wit

We are also at the mercy of an inference that may well be unwarranted -- that the injuries would have been detected. Maybe they would have, maybe not.

Anything taken in the emergency room would normally be read both by the emergency physician, and then again by the radiologist. Everything is read by the radiologist, no matter who else looks at it.

Should Terri's injuries be absolutely ruled out by x-rays and other tests at Humana, we have..... two unsolved mysteries for the price of one! What caused her cardiac arrest on 2/25/90? And when did she receive the additional injuries shown in Dr. Walker's bone scan/correlative radiographs?

Since an L1 compression fracture occurs as a result of axial compression or severe forced flexion (and usually against a restraint, like a lap seat belt) it would not in any case indicate domestic violence of the type postulated. If he threw her off a 20 foot ladder, yes, but a struggle on the ground, no. Which makes the compression much more likely to be a result of bone abnormality, which is a known complication of prolonged immobility. Given all the medical data, the compression fracture isn't a mystery to me. Her cardiac arrest is a mystery, and I have no answer.

The one sensible -- and statistically far the most likely -- answer to this is that she was the victim of domestic violence, and that the anoxic insult and the trauma both resulted from that incident.

We have no evidence of domestic violence, since an L1 compression fracture is not indicative of domestic violence. It is, however, very consistent with prolonged immobility. One source, the Veteran's affairs Canada gave a cut-off for osteoporosis as a result of immobility as over 60 days. At the time of the bone scan, Terri Schiavo had been immobile for more than a year.

854 posted on 03/16/2007 4:45:08 PM PDT by retMD
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 845 | View Replies]

To: bjs1779

It's unclear as to whether it's a single shot, or a single c-spine series. If they were trying to clear her c-spine thinking trauma, I would have expected a series.


855 posted on 03/16/2007 4:46:54 PM PDT by retMD
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 848 | View Replies]

To: bjs1779

, bjs1779 wrote: -However, as I've cited repeatedly, the autopsy report mentions them, and states unequivocally that no fractures were recorded on the x-rays from her intial hospitalization.-

Just to be clear, L1 is lumbar, right? Was there a lumbar x-ray mentioned in the M'E.'s report?

Yes, L1 is lumbar, and you are correct, as I've stated up thread, that there was no specific lumbar spine x-ray. Although it isn't focused on the spine, the lumbar spine shows on abdomen x-rays, which she did have. In any case, it's moot, because an L1 compression fracture is not consistent with domestic violence injury.

856 posted on 03/16/2007 4:59:51 PM PDT by retMD
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 852 | View Replies]

To: bjs1779
I am trying to find leading causes of death statistics for young women, by age. I want to see how Terri's near-death in 1990 fits in. So far I have found only the top ten causes, but will keep looking. Even so, the top ten causes add up to 99 out of 100 deaths. If the cause isn't on this list, the odds are AT LEAST 100-to-1 that it won't affect a healthy young woman like Terri. Usually the odds are much, much longer than that.

Leading causes of death among young women (recent year).

Ages 20-24 (Terri, who had just turned 26, really belongs more in this group than in the next where the effects of aging begin to show.)

Note: if it's in RED, we cannot eliminate it as a cause of Terri's nearly fatal injuries. All the others are eliminated.

1. Unintentional injuries [mainly auto accidents]
2. Homicide
3. Cancer
4. Suicide
5. Heart disease
6. Birth defects
7. HIV disease
8. Pregnancy complications
9. Stroke
10. Diabetes

Ages 25-44

1. Unintentional injuries
2. Cancer
3. Heart disease
4. Suicide
5. Homicide
6.HIV disease
7. Stroke
8. Diabetes
9. Birth defects
10. Pregnancy complications

857 posted on 03/16/2007 5:04:39 PM PDT by T'wit (Visitors: the good news is, lots of people have agreed with you. The bad news is, they were Nazis.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 850 | View Replies]

To: retMD
In any case, it's moot, because an L1 compression fracture is not consistent with domestic violence injury.

Would you agree that it is not consistent with a hospital type of injury either?

858 posted on 03/16/2007 5:17:03 PM PDT by bjs1779
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 856 | View Replies]

To: retMD
>> In any case, it's moot, because an L1 compression fracture is not consistent with domestic violence injury.

That certainly has not been established.

According to the following Source, 25% of spinal cord injuries are from violence. One out of every four. The percentage is higher in Terri's age group.

"Frequency: Approximately 11,000 new spinal cord injuries occur each year, and approximately 250,000 people in the United States have a spinal cord injury. Approximately half the injuries occur in the thoracic, lumbar, and sacral areas; the other half occur in the cervical spine. The average age at injury is 32 years, and 55% of those injured are aged 16-30 years. Approximately 80% of patients in the US national database are male.

"Vehicular accidents account for approximately one third of reported cases, and approximately 25% of cases are due to violence. Other injuries are typically the result of falls or recreational sporting activities. The incidence of injuries due to violence has been increasing, while the incidence of injuries due to vehicular accidents has been declining."

859 posted on 03/16/2007 5:21:22 PM PDT by T'wit (Visitors: the good news is, lots of people have agreed with you. The bad news is, they were Nazis.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 856 | View Replies]

To: T'wit

I have always have been trying to get it in my mind just which way the L1 fracture was pointed. The break could go forward or backward. Correct?


860 posted on 03/16/2007 5:36:06 PM PDT by bjs1779
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 859 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 821-840841-860861-880 ... 941-951 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson