Posted on 03/09/2007 12:40:43 PM PST by steve-b
"Imagine this being used under a hillary administration. Then anyone can see why keeping government power in check is a good thing."
Certainly. I, for one, call for the immediate disbanding of the Departments of Defense, Army, Navy, and Air Force. Just imagine these departments 'being used under a Hillary administration'.
No. Did I claim it was "False"? Please do not put words in my mouth. That may be what you want to think I am claiming, because it so much easier to discount that. Sorry to disappoint you, but that is not what I said, did not even imply it. Let me expound upon the subject and spell out exactly what I mean so you don't misunderstand me. Can't have THAT on an intellectually rigorous site like Free Republic. They might think we are Liberals, and revoke our signons.
What I implied is the author is a known liberal who does not have the best interests of our country at heart, has an axe to grind with the administration, and is going to take information and present it in the most hysterical and damning light she can. If you cannot understand that, then you are unable to understand that there is a very large political component behind it that has nothing to do with securing our rights and freedoms.
This has everything to do with issues such as the inability of Liberals to block the reauthorization of the Patriot Act, anger at the Bush Administration in general, the recent firing of US Attorneys and the inability of liberals to have their way, even though they now have control of Congress.
The faux outrage from people like Ted Kennedy had nothing to do with protecting your rights. He could give a Rat's Ass about you and your rights. It is true that a stopped clock may be right twice a day, but trust me. These clocks in question are functioning the way they always have.
Primarily, to me, the fact that liberals, the author, the ACLU and Ted Kennedy all have their panties in a bunch over this indicate perhaps we should actually look at what happened, not bite down hard on the hook, line and sinker and begin screaming "OUR RIGHTS HAVE BEEN VIOLATED! THE GOVERNMENT IS SHIPPING US ALL OFF TO AN AMERICAN GULAG!"
Which is what you seem to be doing and what many on this board seem to be doing. I wouldn't want to accuse anyone of being unfairly prejudicial to the current situation, but boy, there sure are a lot of people who thought the Patriot Act was an abomination from day one, and are proclaiming that as loudly as they can. I would think that makes it difficult to examine dispassionately the issue at hand, when one has so much emotional energy invested into the issue.
Out of a total of 145,000 probes for information, 8,500 of them did not follow the proper procedures. That is about 5%.
Furthermore, there is no indication in the analysis of the transgressions that there was malice or criminal intent involve.
From the FBI Statement: "...Importantly, the OIG found no deliberate or intentional misuse of authorities, whether NSL statutes or Attorney General Guidelines. Nevertheless, the OIG review identified several areas of inadequate auditing and oversight of these vital investigative tools, as well as inappropriate processes, and these are findings of significant concern...."
And this: "...The FBI will work together with DOJ’s National Security Division and the Privacy and Civil Liberties Office to implement these reforms. Throughout this process, the FBI will continue to work closely with the OIG to gauge progress and consider any additional reforms..."
And this: "...In its review, the OIG took into consideration the environment in which the Bureau has functioned over the last five years. Since September 11, 2001, as the report noted, the FBI has undergone major reorganization. The men and women of the Bureau's Counterterrorism Division, in particular, have carried an extraordinary workload, transforming operations while working at a breakneck pace protect Americans.
And MOST importantly: "...The OIG also recognized the importance of NSLs, citing a number of instances in which they have been used by the FBI to gather the basic building blocks of its counterterrorism and counterintelligence investigations.
Let's see. So, the Office of the Inspector General (OIG), an ostensibly third party impartial group did an audit and found the improprieties. They determined they were not done with malicious intent. They determined that they were caused by people cutting corners to get information they deemed to have a time factor involved. They didn't follow the correct procedures for documenting it. The OID readily accepted and agreed that the issues were largely the product of a huge overhaul of the department, command chain and documented procedures in a chronologically short frame of time. They also discussed steps they were going to put into place to clarify guidelines, improve oversight, and punish people who get it wrong.
Most importantly, a third party, impartial watchdog branch has stated that the information gained though the Patriot Act is VALUABLE and had made critical contributions to various "counterterrorism and counterintelligence investigations"
Hmm. Interesting. Doesn't sound at all to me like Bobby Kennedy trying to wiretap Martin Luther King, now does it? Perhaps one can see that only if one is able to look at things dispassionately.
All things if set up correctly are in a state of checks and balances. Sound to me like the process of checks and balances is in effect here?
What do you think is going to be the result of this event within the FBI?
I'm not asking you what you WANT, which is obvious. I am asking you what you think will happen in the FBI as a result of this?
No Kidding.
No, I'm not kidding. If what Hillary would do is the gold standard for what powers we should grant the federal government, then we should immediately declare the US Constitution null and void and completely dismantle the US Government.
This whole 'what would Hillary do' is an absurd argument. Hillary could care less what the law says. Hillary doesn't need legal authorization. She'll do exactly what she pleases when she please dispite the law. Take this for example, suppose we pass a law that says Hillary can't abuse the powers of the Presidency. Do you think that would restrain her? Of course not. It follows therefore that 'what would Hillary do' is absurd.
I was agreeing with you. Of course, that might not have been evident from my one line response.
"The FBI improperly and, in some cases, illegally used the USA Patriot Act to secretly obtain personal information about people in the United States, a Justice Department audit concluded Friday."
Yeah, that's a BIG surprise.
The government only wants what's best for you, comrade.
I figured we were in close agreement. I just couldn't resist the opportunity to comment more.
LOL...around here, you gotta take it when you can get it!
thanks
"I told you people!
Imagine this being used under a hillary administration. Then anyone can see why keeping government power in check is a good thing."
I remember when this Patriot Act first came our its defenders defiantly chirped to the critics that no abuses have happened yet, as if somehow that would be prevented as long as Republicans stayed in office.
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