India swamps Japan to claim Asian top spot in billionaires list

How does the Mideast stack up? I heard there was one billionaire in the Gaza strip, but old Yassir died without revealing his Swiss bank account numbers.

The mideast is a cesspool. Wouldn't mourn a whit when they meet their comeuppance. Dunno if oil's gonna run out in my lifetime or not. Just hope I'll live to see it happen.

That's a lot of billionaires considering the poor GDP/capita level of India and China!

Anyhow, if you want comparison, in 2005 the single European city of Moscow alone had 30 dollar billionaires!!

I wonder how many Moscow presently is home to. Wouldn't be surprised if the number has increased since then.

Without a doubt, India and China are attracting a lot of foreign investment nowadays and the overall economic situation is improving, but it'll take some time before any of these nations will produce a person like

Konosuke Matsushita

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Konosuke_Matsushita

One person that comes somewhat close in terms of vision, although not in performance is

Sir Mokshagundam Visvesvarayya

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mokshagundam_Visvesvarayya

But why hasn't India or China produced more men like this, while tiny Sweden (my home country) has provided humanity with men like Ingvar Kamprad (richest man on earth and SOLE owner of IKEA) as well as Alfred NOBEL and Lars Magnus ERICSSON etc, etc?

Perhaps China and India would perform even better if they laid off their faceless narcissistic claims to cultural supremacy and begun to focus on other aspects of The Individual than that which comes in accounts.

The culture of Renaissance Florence (before the Black Death Florence had around 100 000 inhabitants, during High Renaissance something like 70 000) encompassed people like Michelangelo, Galileo, Boccaccio, Botticelli, Donatello, Dante, Machiavelli, Brunelleschi, the Medici's, Petrarch, Leonardo da Vinci.

That's what I call superior cultural performance.

The culture of Renaissance Florence (before the Black Death Florence had around 100 000 inhabitants, during High Renaissance something like 70 000) encompassed people like Michelangelo, Galileo, Boccaccio, Botticelli, Donatello, Dante, Machiavelli, Brunelleschi, the Medici's, Petrarch, Leonardo da Vinci. That's what I call superior cultural performance. The past 500 yrs have been extraordinary for Europe in the Asian giants tsocio-cultural terms. Much of what you see and talk about is a west-centric perspective. Lemme provide you with another. Didya know that the Indians were the first to compute the speed of light (to the third decimal place at that) at least 1500 years before the Michelson-Morley experiment? Did you know that the Indians in the time of Aryabhatta (500 BC) knoew about the Pythagorean theorem (which means knew about square roots and adfvanced algebra)? That they had already known the value of pi before anyone else here in the west? The list could go on and on. I often wondered what could've caused such a civilization to crashdown like it had. The answer is clear and frightening.... "The Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown by barbarians invading from without and multiplying from within." --Will Durant, The Story of Phiosophy Think of what may have happened if our side had lost the battle of Vienna in 1683? or had Charles Martel not prevailed? A few centuries are but an eyewash in the sweepstakes of history. I fully expect the Asian giants to reclaim their place in the world, whether the west likes it or not.

Sorry. This one is better formatted.

The culture of Renaissance Florence (before the Black Death Florence had around 100 000 inhabitants, during High Renaissance something like 70 000) encompassed people like Michelangelo, Galileo, Boccaccio, Botticelli, Donatello, Dante, Machiavelli, Brunelleschi, the Medici's, Petrarch, Leonardo da Vinci. That's what I call superior cultural performance.

The past 500 yrs have been extraordinary for Europe in sociocultural nay civilizational terms. Much of what you see and talk about is a west-centric perspective. Lemme provide you with another. Did you know that the Indians were the first to compute the speed of light (to the third decimal place at that) at least 1500 years before the Michelson-Morley experiment? Did you know that the Indians in the time of Aryabhatta (500 BC) know about the Pythagorean theorem (which means knew about square roots and advanced algebra)? That they had already known the value of pi before anyone else here in the west? The list could go on and on. I often wondered what could've caused such a civilization to crash down like it had. The answer is clear and frightening....

"The Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown by barbarians invading from without and multiplying from within." --Will Durant, The Story of Philosophy

Think of what may have happened if our side had lost the battle of Vienna in 1683? or had Charles Martel not prevailed? A few centuries are but an eyewash in the sweepstakes of history. I fully expect the Asian giants to reclaim their place in the world, whether the west likes it or not. And alas, Europe it seems is falling without a fight to the izlamist demographic invasion. In another generation, it may be too late for the Judeo-christian Europe we have known and loved.

India as well as China both lack a cultural platform able of launching a true concept of The Individual.

The Florentine Renaissance, a period of unparallelled human performance during a poor show of years as well as populace, DID.

The West in general is magnificent in this area, even when it has to reinvent and remodel itself from wreckage and scattered remnants.

Consider this;

Why, in its darkest hour did the West resist this evil:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_tours

My answer:

Not because of genes.

But because of the unique cultural insight of the Western tradition that honors the full development of the individual as the prime source of common survival!

Thanks for posting this.

India is richer than China? I'm surprised, but happy.

I'd always predicted India's open society would encourage and allow wealth creation, but it's nice to see some data confirming the guess.

The wealth gap will only increase.

Actually it doesn't really show Indians are richer than the Chinese, it only shows Indians have lots of billionaires. Anyway, since all of these Indians have created their wealth on their own, through their private start-ups, it augers well for the country, as a whole.

India's economy is mostly organic, as in most of its firms are private start-ups, not foreign-owned, or state-owned, as the case is in China.

To begin with, sorry for my late replying (I've been busy).

I'm well aware there are lots of intelligent and successful people in India, Pakistan, Bangladesh and China.

However, I think that one must draw the conclusion that these countries are far behind the West and Japan when it comes to being "innovation economies", economies that are based on the competence of "being able to do what no one else can do".

You mentioned Anji Reddy above. Without a doubt, he's an intelligent and successful person, BUT has Dr. Reddy's Laboratories Ltd., his company, THEMSELVES invented anything that can compete with the most important innovations of the biggest pharmaceutical companies of the West and Japan? Hardly. By the way, 49 of the world's 50 biggest pharmaceutical companies are either from the West or Japan (one is from Israel).

On the other hand, I believe India is presently going through a "cathing up process". Hopefully, India will one day, at large, be a very prosperous country. Companies doing what Dr. Reddy's Laboratories Ltd., namely making copies of the products of companies from the leading economical sphere, are typical for "Catching up economies". Japan once went through this process. Germany too (during the 19th century when the UK was the most powerful nation on earth in many areas).

Arguing often is fun, but what ever part of the world we're from, we all should rejoice to see nations like India and China becoming economical superpowers. These countries are on the right track.

As a Westerner, I don't "fear" India and China becoming economical giants. However, I fear poverty and lack of education. A lot of bad things comes from it.

All nations/ethnic groups have made beneficial contributions to humanity. Personally, I feel the West taken together has made more important ones than any other part of the world.

Western Culture is based on the fusion of four magnificent ancient cultures; the Greek, Roman, Germanic and Viking ones. The roots to the powerful global position of the West of today are, to a large extent, found in these dynamic, ancient elements.

As a Swede, I'd like to highlight the contribution of the Vikings, maybe the most technology oriented one of them:

(If you wish, you can skip reading the article about the planned Viking Center and start reading my comments to that article)

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1762996/posts

Other links that might interest readers of this thread:

About "Innovation economies":

http://www.state.gov/e/rls/rm/2001/3696.htm

About Dr. Reddy's Laboratories Ltd.:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dr_Reddy%27s_Labs

Top 50 pharmaceutical companies of the world:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_50_pharmaceutical_companies

It requires a certain amount of in economic and overall level of technological advancement in order to get to a level where a country or a society can innovate. Its only the this century that has India been able to shrug of the yoke of colonization and the bankrupt policies of socialism (mind you both of those are also very much gifts of the same western culture that you are boastful of) and finally been able to embrace Capitalism and Individualism. Don't forget colonialism, fascism, communism and socialism were also born in the West and are also very much part of western culture. Only last decade we kicked of a part of that western culture called "socialism" and adopted our own individual enterprise and look where we are getting today. Sorry but I don't buy you western culture supremacy crap. The contributions that you attribute to western culture are in fact the contributions on only two major countries the US and the UK. Other countries had very minimal contributions regardless of whether they are part of western culture or not.

And talking about the greatness of Greek, Roman, Germanic and Viking roots sounds like a joke, cuz it simply pales in comparison shear magnitude and greatness of Indian culture which was far more grander, ancient and advanced then any other ancient cultures you mentioned. For starters who do you think invented algebra? The Vikings? Even Pythagorean and Euclidean geometry were invented in India centuries before any those western cultures even came into existence.

And who do you think are far more ancient and advanced sea farers? The Vikings or the Indians?

Read this article:

http://www.hinduwisdom.info/Seafaring_in_Ancient_India.htm

The word Navigate comes from the Sanskrit word "navgaith".

Companies doing what Dr. Reddy's Laboratories Ltd., namely making copies of the products of companies from the leading economical sphere, are typical for "Catching up economies". Japan once went through this process. Germany too (during the 19th century when the UK was the most powerful nation on earth in many areas).

I admit we are still doing the catching up, we are far from being a developed country with the kind of economic resources at our disposal that can you expect of any advanced country that is able to invest in research. We are not there yet. India is still a poor country but still the amount of research that's done in India is commendable considering the amount of resources we are able to put into research. Don't just get to know who Vinod Dham is but also the latest series of intel mobile processor technology is being researched in India. That's an indication of how far we have progressed in a short period of time. And honestly I think we will do far better if we stop aping the west, and rid ourselves of (the western malady of) socialism and realize our individual enterprise, potential, the greatness of our own culture and what we had achieved in the past and also realize what we are capable of achieving hence forth. We can do without all the condescension and the uncharitable advises from west. Give another 50 years the western culture will soon become a mere shadow of "Eastern culture" with the combined effort of India, China and Japan.

Give another 50 years the western culture will soon become a mere shadow of "Eastern culture" with the combined effort of India, China and Japan.

You are right, though not many on FR will want to hear it.

No denying socialism, fascism, Nazism and a lot of other stupid things have been "invented" by the West.

Is that the news?

I never said the West was perfect.

At least we invent our own deranged ideologies and traditions instead of copying them from other cultures. There are lots of Hitler admirers and Socialists in India, but you don't find Westerners practicing sati (widow burning) or advocating the caste system.

The Chinese are still calling themselves Communists, few Westerners today do likewise.

Although we have let it down several times throughout history, the core idea of Western Civilization is that man is godlike and every human life therefore immensely valuable.

In India, a human life isn't worth much.

I don't deny the evils of Socialism. But even the horrors of Socialism is dwarfed by the splendor and beauty of Western Civilization as a whole.

India might have invented the process of making sugar and might have produced more holy men than any other nation, but India did not invent the algebra. The Babylonians did.

The strongest man made force in this universe is modern science. The single most important "innovation" that led to the development of modern science is the kind of calculus created by Newton and Leibniz (independent of each other), which so to say is a merge between Arabic algebra and Greek geometry.

India and China have produced some good mathematicians but compared to the West they're nowhere near in influence.

If you look at an important science like physics the picture is even more disheartening for Asian chauvinists.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_physicists

India is a great nation and its culture and history sure are interesting, but for some reason people in India uncritically embrace every crackpot theory about India being the mother of all inventions, religions etc, etc.

If I claimed that the Vikings invented the Internet I would be called a fool in Scandinavia, if a person in India made the same claim his fellow countrymen would salute him as a great scholar.

My experience is that Westerners often are more self-critical than people from India.

For instance, the theory that Vikings invented the compass long before the Chinese most Scandinavians find interesting but not 100% convincing, while the idea that Jesus went to India is something a lot of Indians uncritically believe.

I'd say a majority of the adult citizens of India would support these two claims;

1."India is the mother of all religions"

2. "India is the mother of all civilizations"

You are convinced "navigation" comes from the Sanskrit word "Navgaith".

Most linguists though would say the word "navigate" comes from the Latin word "navis", meaning "ship," and "agere", meaning "to move or direct".

Nothing wrong with being proud over your origin and your culture, but in the area of blind cultural chauvinism I think people of India are more laughable than I am.

Finally, let's have a look at the most important inventions/innovations humanity has made:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Notable_Innovation

I find a great deal of Western contribution to this list, but not much of Indian one.

In the long run, the nations of India and China will be able to challenge the West in areas like science and economy, but from their present position, they'll get nowhere without Western capital and and know how.

India and China are fascinating in many ways, but in general they can't compete with the West of today.

That's the plain truth.

Perhaps speaking the truth instead of describing reality like one wishes it to be makes me "Eurocentric", an adjective European socialists like to use..

Correction:

I wrote "If I claimed that the Vikings invented the Internet I would be called a fool in Scandinavia, if a person in India made the same claim his fellow countrymen would salute him as a great scholar".

Naturally, I meant that if someone in India claimed it was an invention of ancient INDIA he would be admired.

At least we invent our own deranged ideologies and traditions instead of copying them from other cultures.

Its a silly argument. I am sorry but there is no greatness in being very innovative in your evil genius. Being creative and original in your evil is no indication of the greatness of a culture. Rather it only highlights the social and moral bankruptcy your culture.

There are lots of Hitler admirers and Socialists in India, but you don't find Westerners practicing sati (widow burning) or advocating the caste system.

And widow burning does not happen in India anymore as much as witch burning does not happen in the west anymore. The west may not practice cast system but it has an its equivalent racism that's very much prevalent. And yes we have socialists in India as a result of the residual influence of the Raj but that will change soon. As for Hitler admirers, you must be out of your mind. There are hardly any Hitler admirers except for just a handful of right wing political whack jobs. In a country of one billion whack jobs are not difficult to find. We have all kinds, but at least we have nothing like the Neo-Nazis, Skin heads and Aryan Nation like gangs that you find in the west. The Hitler admiring is more because of anti-British attitude then love for Nazism. In fact many of them are victims of the European propaganda garbage (Blavatski theory) about Aryan invasion of India.

The Chinese are still calling themselves Communists, few Westerners today do likewise.

Actually the Chinese don't. Only their government calls themselves so. In fact today's China is hardly communist, its a free market economy under a totalitarian system.

Although we have let it down several times throughout history, the core idea of Western Civilization is that man is godlike and every human life therefore immensely valuable.

In India, a human life isn't worth much.

How so? How much was life worth in the West, during inquisition, crusades, pogrom of Jews, slave trade of Africans, the two world wars, holocaust, Soviet reign, and the not so old incident of the break up of Yugoslavia and the bloody massacre of Serbs, Bosnians, Croats, Slovenians and Albanians deep inside Europe and the current fighting in Isreal-Lebanon? It seems life is still worth a lot more in India then Europe despite the abnormal level of poverty that actually suppose to make life difficult to sustain. no India values human life a lot more. We may not have the bleeding heart feminists, environmentalists, animal lovers, gay rights/terrorist rights activists like in Europe but we actually value human life a lot more.

I don't deny the evils of Socialism. But even the horrors of Socialism is dwarfed by the splendor and beauty of Western Civilization as a whole.

You need to cool off on your hyperbole. Except for some temporary scientific development there is hardly anything that the west has to offer us that is worth anything of value and that which we cannot achieve through our own effort. As I said its only a matter of time. The Europe of today is nothing but a moral cesspool, a dying culture that's fast becoming a breeding ground of Islamic fascism, a paradise for socialists, homosexuals, drug addicts, feminists, and all kinds of losers conceivable. The best brains of the west no longer comes from Europe but from Asia with Indians and Chinese bagging more then half the number of patents in US universities. Almost 60% of the hi-tech startup ventures are founded by Indians alone and all the loudmouthed Euros weenies can do is brag about their greatness.

India might have invented the process of making sugar and might have produced more holy men than any other nation, but India did not invent the algebra. The Babylonians did.

To even get close to thinking about algebra let alone begin doing them, you would have to first learn how to use the Hindu-Arabic numeral system. The Binary, Hindu-Arabic numeral system, decimal and floating point numbers were invented in India. Do some research on "Pingala", "Aryabhata" "Brahmagupta" "Mahavira" "Bhaskar" "Panini", "Manjula ", "Bhaskaracharya ". Only later on came Liu Hui, Sun-Tzi, Heron, Diophantus, al-Khowarizmi.

Or simply read these:

http://india_resource.tripod.com/mathematics.htm

http://www.gosai.com/chaitanya/saranagati/html/vishnu_mjs/math/math.html#Vedic-Math2

The strongest man made force in this universe is modern science. The single most important "innovation" that led to the development of modern science is the kind of calculus created by Newton and Leibniz (independent of each other), which so to say is a merge between Arabic algebra and Greek geometry.

Arabic algebra and Greek geometry lol? not Islamic rocket science? Yeah right. No wonder Europe is fading because of the Eurocentric socialist garbage that's taught in your curriculum.

Madhavacharya discovered Taylor series of Sine and Cosine function Newton Power series, Leibnitz series for Pi, Leibnitz series for the inverse Tangent about 300 years before Gregory Leibnitz, Newton or Taylor.

nBhaskaracharya calculated the time taken by the earth to orbit the sun hundreds of years before the astronomer Smart. Time taken by earth to orbit the sun: (5th century) 365.258756484 days.

§Theory of Continued Fraction was discovered by Bhaskaracharya II.

§

§Indians discovered Arithmetic and Geometric progression. Arithmetic progression is explained in Yajurveda.

§

§Govindaswamin discovered Newton Gauss Interpolation formula about 1800 years before Newton.

§

§Vateswaracharya discovered Newton Gauss Backward Interpolation formula about 1000 years before Newton.

§

§Parameswaracharya discovered Lhuiler’s formula about 400 years before Lhuiler.

§

§Nilakanta discovered Newton’s Infinite Geometric Progression convergent series.

§

§Positive and Negative numbers and their calculations were explained first by Brahmagupta in his book Brahmasputa Siddhanta.

§

§Aryabhatta also propounded the Heliocentric theory of gravitation, thus predating Copernicus by almost one thousand years.

India and China have produced some good mathematicians but compared to the West they're nowhere near in influence.

LOL. Check this list: http://www-groups.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~history/Countries/India.html

And also read about this guy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Srinivasa_Ramanujan

According to AL Basham

"Medieval Indian mathematicians, such as Brahmagupta (seventh century), Mahavira (ninth century), and Bhaskara (twelfth century), made several discoveries which in Europe were not known until the Renaissance or later. They understood the import of positive and negative quantities, evolved sound systems of extracting square and cube roots, and could solve quadratic and certain types of indeterminate equations." [6] Mahavira's most noteworthy contribution is his treatment of fractions for the first time and his rule for dividing one fraction by another, which did not appear in Europe until the 16th century."

"The debt of the Western world to India in this respect [the field of mathematics] cannot be overestimated. Most of the great discoveries and inventions of which Europe is so proud would have been impossible without a developed system of mathematics, and this in turn would have been impossible if Europe had been shackled by the unwieldy system of Roman numerals. The unknown man who devised the new system was, from the world's point of view, after the Buddha, the most important son of India. His achievement, though easily taken for granted, was the work of an analytical mind of the first order, and he deserves much more honor than he has so far received."

If you look at an important science like physics the picture is even more disheartening for Asian chauvinists.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_physicists

Yes that's because that list does not include anybody who existed before the 19th century. duh! Scientific development developed did very much exist prior to the 19th century.

BTW:

Satyendra Nath Bose — India (1894–1974)

Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar — India, USA (1910–1995)

Jagadeesh Moodera — India, USA (1950— )

Jayant Narlikar - India (1938 - )

Chandrasekhara Venkata Raman — India (1888–1970)

Thanu Padmanabhan - India (1957- )

Not bad for a poor country that's just taking the first steps.

India is a great nation and its culture and history sure are interesting, but for some reason people in India uncritically embrace every crackpot theory about India being the mother of all inventions, religions etc, etc.

Not the mother of all inventions, but yes among the oldest civilization and the grandest of them all and its not a crack pot idea although may Euro weenies may find it hard to swallow that the inferior dark skinned Asians were actually far more civilized and advanced then them and have preserved a culture far superior to the Euros.

If I claimed that the Vikings invented the Internet I would be called a fool in Scandinavia, if a person in India made the same claim his fellow countrymen would salute him as a great scholar.

Not at all. Much of India still gulps down the British "Indology" garbage left behind by our erstwhile colonial masters and are very ignorant about their own heritage. With better education that'll change.

My experience is that Westerners often are more self-critical than people from India.

In that case with all due respect I would have to say you have zero experience.

For instance, the theory that Vikings invented the compass long before the Chinese most Scandinavians find interesting but not 100% convincing, while the idea that Jesus went to India is something a lot of Indians uncritically believe.

A lot of Christian themselves believe so. In fact the first ones to put forth such theory were people from the west not from India. BTW compass was invented in China long before the Vikings claim to have invented it, they even claim they reached America on canoes. Sorry I don't buy any of that revisionist garbage.

Most linguists though would say the word "navigate" comes from the Latin word "navis", meaning "ship," and "agere", meaning "to move or direct".

Roman empire didn't even exist when Indians were treading the high seas. And Sanskrit is a far older language. Hardly surprising the Latin word actually came from the Sanskrit word, just the same way they adopted our number system.

Nothing wrong with being proud over your origin and your culture, but in the area of blind cultural chauvinism I think people of India are more laughable than I am.

I think Europeans are much more a victim of cultural chauvinism had have gone to abnormal lengths to emphasize their own contributions and greatness when in fact until just a few centuries ago they didn't even know the world was round. Yes it was the cultural renaissance followed by the industrial revolutions that changed the story for Europe and it was Islamic invasion that was the bane for India. The actual European story started only post industrial revolution.

Finally, let's have a look at the most important inventions/innovations humanity has made:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Notable_Innovation

I find a great deal of Western contribution to this list, but not much of Indian one.

The list includes quite a few few from India, China and other parts of Asia pre industrial revolution, but most importantly its just a list compiled on the Wiki by some unknown X,Y,Z, who included what he/she thought is important. For that matter even I can compile my own list on the Wiki.

In the long run, the nations of India and China will be able to challenge the West in areas like science and economy, but from their present position, they'll get nowhere without Western capital and and know how.

India and China are fascinating in many ways, but in general they can't compete with the West of today.

The truth is Europe is a dwindling civilization. The age of Europe is over. As for America and UK, there color is changing fast with greater influx of Asians. The US may survive as it has a greater capacity to absorb, adapt, and change but not Europe. As for technology and capital. The West itself is heavily dependent on the large human capital that comes from Asia and namely just the two country India and China. The reason why Europe is dying is because it lacks the human capital that India and China can provide (and I don't just mean population but population combined with quality education that's driving the economy of India and China). If you think its all the result of western technology and money then you are all mistaken. Human capital is worth much more than money or technology. Some of India's greatest present technological achievements is the result of home grown technology. 2007 India will be the fourth country that will launch man in space with completely indigenous technology and resources. The only other western country is the US (Soviet Union/Russia can be considered to be wedged between Asia and Europe). The other Asian country is China. India was the third country in the world to build the super computer after US and Japan again solely with indigenous technology and resources. Read about the "Param padma". The most advanced nuclear plants in India which are capable of re-processing spent fuel are totally developed with indigenous technology. There are plenty of such achievements.

Do you think Europe will be able to send man in space? Ever?