Posted on 03/07/2007 1:00:20 PM PST by garv
Forget about whether Rudy Giuliani is too moderate to win over the conservatives who dominate the nomination process in the Republican Party. The real story is whether the opera buff's nascent presidential bid will be crushed under the weight of the Pucciniesque life of the 107th mayor of New York.
We all know about the first wife who was his second cousin, the second wife who found out she was being divorced while watching television and the third wife who was barred by court order from the mayor's residence or from meeting Giuliani's children, Andrew and Caroline, there before the divorce was final.
Now come the public comments from Andrew that he won't be stumping for pops in Iowa, New Hampshire or anywhere else. Not only did he say "I have problems with my father," but he also added, "There's obviously a little problem that exists between me and his wife."
If past is prologue, the younger Giuliani's phone must have crackled with Rudy rage once his comments came to light. See, when Giuliani was mayor, he brooked no criticism - no matter how minor, no matter how constructive. Having been on the receiving end of one of Giuliani's withering verbal assaults, I know of what I speak.
The phone rang around 9 a.m. on Jan. 7, 1999. It was Giuliani's personal assistant, Beth Patrone. "Please hold for the mayor." He had never called me before. His skin-peeling tirades against reporters, politicians, community leaders, perceived enemies and those deemed too weak to fight City Hall were legendary. Now it was my turn.
Giuliani was spitting fire over my column in that morning's New York Daily News, in which I likened his second term to the sitcom "Seinfeld." The thesis was summed up in the first paragraph: "The show has been reincarnated as Mayor Giuliani's second term, which has turned into a term about nothing."
"Jonathan," he said.
"Good morning, Mr. Mayor," I said, "How ..."
For the next 10 minutes, Giuliani ripped me apart, calling my column "intellectually dishonest," among other things. He hung up when he couldn't find a favorable editorial that I'd written on his State of the City speech the previous year. But he called back, spouting off the headline and launching into another 10-minute monologue.
I tell this story because it points to other aspects of hizzoner's personality that were more troublesome.
Giuliani could be vindictive. He had no qualms about using government to settle a score. When the City Council overrode his veto of a bill to change the operations of homeless shelters in December 1998, Giuliani sought to evict five community service programs, including one that served 500 mentally ill people, in the district of the bill's chief sponsor, and to replace them with a homeless shelter.
What's more, he released a list of sites for other shelters that would be housed in the districts of council members who voted in favor of the override. (He backed down two months later, after much public outrage.)
Rather than take the high road earlier that year, Giuliani erupted when the Rev. Calvin O. Butts, a prominent Harlem minister who had endorsed Giuliani for reelection, said, "I don't believe he likes black people." In fact, Giuliani put a lockdown on city funding for projects affiliated with the politically connected cleric.
But it was his reaction to racially charged incidents involving the police that highlighted Giuliani's other affliction: tone-deafness.
Amadou Diallo was reaching for his wallet when undercover police officers gunned him down in a hail of 41 bullets in the vestibule of his apartment building in 1999. New Yorkers of all colors and political stripes trouped to police headquarters to be arrested in protest of not only the officers' actions but also of Giuliani's inability to grasp why everyone was appalled by what happened.
The visionary mayor who brought law and order to the ungovernable city and who became the face of a bloodied but unbowed nation on Sept. 11, 2001, was a difficult mayor. Many wonder whether the trauma of that day has mellowed Giuliani. We'll soon know. There's nothing like the stress of a presidential campaign to find out for sure.
Jonathan Capehart is a member of the Washington Post's editorial page staff.
But over a liberal columnist? I mean, c'mon. There's a huge difference between fighting back and acting outrageous.
This forum won't have an impact on his campaign one way or the other. Mr. Mayor is an optimistic man who speaks without a script and he's likable. I won't be surprised if he wins the nomination. I am anxiously awaiting the first candidate debate on April 4, 2007. Let's see how each of our GOP candidates handle themselves and I hope the debate will permit interaction and questioning of one another by the participants.
FOTFLOL!
I repeat myself for at least the 10th time over the past four years, but the most likeable candidate, the one exuding the most cheerful and optimistic message, has won every single election in the general election, at least since the age of mass media.
Richard Nixon was pretty lucky to run against some real sourpusses.
Rudy is already battle-hardened for the debates because he handled the brutal, violently opposed to him, New York Press in his press conferences for years. McCain clearly doesn't like to be questioned. I've never seen Romney in action, so I don't know how he might do.
I'd like to see Ron Paul try to defend his calls for letters of Marque and Reprisal to hire pirates to defend us against al-Qaida instead of using the US Marines.
It's not going to be a contest. All Rudy has to do is dance a little to the right to assert that he won't confiscate guns, and will appoint strict constructionist judges, and he's in. He's already started doing that.
As a Duncan Hunter supporter I am choosing not to engage in debate on this Rudy Giuliani thread on Free Republic. As a freeper I am disappointed that there are fans of a liberal presidential candidate trying to push socially liberal views on this socially conservative forum. In particular, I have noticed that the Rudy G fans do not answer posts questioning the qualitative substance of their candidate, or the posts are met merely with insults.
Duncan Hunter's campaign website
http://www.gohunter08.com/
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Video of Rudy Giuliani in his own words
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVBtPIrEleM
Transcript of video below.
Will the real Rudy show up at CPAC?
Culture of life:
ABC clip:
George Will: "Do you think Roe v Wade was good constitutional law?"
Rudy Giuliani: "Yes I believe, I believe it is."
Cnn Clip December 2, 1999:
Announcer: "Giuliani was then asked whether he supports a ban on what critics call partial birth abortions, something Bush strongly supports."
Rudy Giuliani : "No, I have not supported that, and I don't see my position on that changing."
Immigration
CNN clip:
Announcer: "Back in 1996, mayor Giuliani went to federal court to challenge new federal laws requiring the city to inform the federal government about illegal immigrants."
Rudy Giuliani: "There isn't a mayor or a public official in this country that's more strongly pro immigrant than I am. Including disagreeing with President Clinton when he signed an anti-immigration legislation about two or three years ago."
Gun control:
CNN clip
Rudy Giuliani: "I'm in favor of gun control"
Meet The Press:
Tim Russert: "How about registration of all handguns?"
Rudy Giuliani: "You know I'm in favor of that. I've been on your show many times."
Gay Rights:
CNN Clip:
Announcer: "As mayor he supported civil unions, and extending health and other benefits to gay couples."
ABC Clip: "I supported domestic partnership legislation and signed it"
Meet The Press:
Tim Russert: "So should gay people be openly allowed to serve?"
Rudy Giuliani: "I think people should be judged on the merits. And there should not be a specific focus on someone's sexual orientation."
First Amendment:
ABC Clip
Cokie Roberts: "Would you vote in the senate in favor of Mccain / Feingold?"
Rudy Giuliani: "Yes, I'm a big supporter of Mccain / Feingold. I have been for a long time."
Party Loyalty:
ABC Clip:
Rudy Giuliani: "Frankly George, I'd like to run on all the lines. I'd like to run on the liberal line, the conservative line, I'd like to run on the democratic line if I could figure out how to do it."
Conservative Values:
Meet The Press:
Tim Russert: "Whether it's gays in the military, gun control, campaign finance, late term abortion - you and Hillary Clinton are in sync on those issues."
Rudy Giuliani: "Well then maybe the other side should stop the 'He's part of the vast right wing conspiracy'."
Welcome To CPAC, Rudy!
End clip.
We're in complete agreement. What a surprise, huh?
The optimistic, likable candidate attracts the largest following. His lead in the polls is not a fluke, it's early and it's name recognition, but it's not a fluke.
Futhermore, when people LIKE a candidate they are less likely to pay much heed to his shortcomings, no matter how loud the and ugly the attacks.
He was a hero here two short years ago when he gave one heck of an endorsement speech at the convention for GWB. I look for GWB to return the favor if asked. If Zell endorses Rudy, all bets are off the tsble! LOL
Fasten your seat belt, DG --- we're in for quite a ride.....lol.
"What's more, he released a list of sites for other shelters that would be housed in the districts of council members who voted in favor of the override. "
Sounds like a smart move to me.
There is a lot of truth in this article. That's why I laugh when people think Rudy will say anything to get elected (judges). That is not his style. He is not ever going to be a PC double speaking politician. He stepped on a lot of toes and was often hated, but he did not back down. The conservative base can negotiate their support with Rudy and count on him to honor his promises.
Also his backing of the police under fire is just what our military needs - protection from the leftist hordes and MSM second guessing their every move.
Dog Gone, I will admit I am worried that Giuliani will get the nomination because I believe it will have very bad short and long-term effects on the GOP and in turn the conservative movement.
That said, I think you vastly overestimate Giuliani's chances in both the primary and the general election. At this point, Giuliani's lead is a combination of name recognition and the aura of his 9/11 performance coupled with a current lack of a nationally known conservative opponent. His current position is rather serendipitous with no viable sitting Vice President and several prominent conservatives getting knocked off in the recent election.
However, I don't believe his support is solid and the emergence of a more conservative alternative could quickly expose him. The Fred Thompson trial balloon had Rudy supporters on this forum ready to jump ship minutes after it was posted, indicating much of his support is based on nothing more than fear of Hillary. If Gingrich gets in the race I believe he'll be an immediate threat and could be a candidate in whom conservative support would coalesce.
As for this article, I can't say I'm shocked to see the support for Giuliani, everyone would love to see someone not afraid to kick some tail in the White House. Kick tail over what is the question. Is it comforting to see a guy who gets worked up over a critical opinion column? Was the outrage at Clinton siccing the IRS on his political opponents reserved only for Democrats or is it disquieting to see another politician willing to abuse his power for political revenge?
What is Giuliani? Is he the tough guy rule of the law prosecutor or is he a petty politician too concerned with his press clippings and willing to seek retribution on his political enemies with questionable tactics? That's the question everyone should be asking themselves.
Well, here's something interesting. He effectively calls himself mediocre (mediocre grades, mediocre law practice) at least twice and probably a lot more times in the first few minutes of his Presidential announcement.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93URN6ytUYQ
He cracked some decent jokes, but he's an awfully dull public speaker.
If I were his opponents, I'd keep on playing excerpts from that tape ...
Not only do I agree with your figures, I think there's a 99% chance that by the end of Rudy's period in office, whether one term or two, the much feared gun grab will not have happened and the law on abortion and guns will be not even one millimeter different one way or the other from what it is today.
All that effort for nothing!
D
If I'm wrong then I'm wrong... and will mourn what will be happening to our country.
But again I ask, what is Plan B? Thompson or Gingrich? They'd actually have to get in the race, and then this forum can attack each of them for not being pure enough.
So, tough guy Giuliani singlehandedly cleaned up New York City, right? You know what would happen if tough guy Rudy took a stroll some night though Harlem or the Bronx, WITHOUT his phalanx of bodyguards armed with evil semi-auto pistols and "assault weapons"? You wouldn't find enough of his scrawny body to scrape off the street the next morning.
A truly "tough" guy doesn't have to have shills constantly yammering about how tough he is. And since you bring up Duncan Hunter, let's do a quick comparison between him and tough guy Rudy. Let's see, battle-hardened Viet Nam vet and National Security expert vs. lisping metrosexual poster boy. Yes, that's a tough one to decide, NOT!!
I'm not sure how much longer the electorate will care whether Kerry went to Cambodia or whether Duncan Hunter could beat up Rudy Giuliani in a fistfight. At some point you quit caring about personal decisions made by someone 35 or 40 years ago and you focus on what they might do in the next couple of years.
"I think there's a 99% chance that by the end of Rudy's period in office, whether one term or two, the much feared gun grab will not have happened and the law on abortion and guns will be not even one millimeter different one way or the other from what it is today."
Hey dude can we share your joint. Must be good stuff eh./s
Then again, am I interested in a Presidential candidate who can go into Harlem without a body guard and shoot people up?
There's tough on the streets and there's tough in politics.
It's a different kind of tough. It requires a lot more physicality to be tough on the streets, and a lot more smarts to be tough in politics.
Do you feel that Duncan Hunter has the ability to convince a deeply divided Congress to bend to his will?
Rudy Giuliani showed he had what it takes to combat the overwhelmingly bureaucratic and Democrat-run NYC bureaucracy.
Does Duncan Hunter have that kind of skill?
That's what you need to convince people if you want your guy to be competitive.
D
Ya think having Ted Kennedy over for movies and popcorn and letting him write the education bill worked out swell?
Ya think we oughta continue to let the media be the fifth-column for the terrorist bastards who want to slit our throats?
I thought Rudy was this guy in a dress and here's a reporter bitching and whining that Rudy's mean to hims.
I think Rudy's got a real low tolerance for bull crap and that suits me down to the ground.
I look forward to him giving all the schmucks the Arafat red carpet--that is, pulling the rug out from under their smug, smarmy keesters.
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