Posted on 03/04/2007 9:45:43 AM PST by A_perfect_lady
My friends, my sister, and I were hanging out at a gay bar in West Hollywood last night (yes, really) because you can buy $1 draft beers during happy hour, and my little sister can flirt with men who won't actually try to take her home. She just moved out to Hollywood to live with me and, being only 29, she still likes to party. I'm the over-protective type, so I go with her and glower at anyone who gets too close.
Because it was a gay bar, all the men I met there were... oh, what's the word... gay, yes, that's it. I fell into a very interesting discussion with a 60 year old man who looked like a cross between Leonard Cohen, a biker, and a hippie. Long gray hair, black cowboy hat, wire rimmed glasses, big belt buckle. He has been "partners" with another fellow for two years now. His partner favors sequins and rhinestones, and whenever he meets a woman, he mulls over what movie star she resembles. It's very flattering. After a few drinks, I apparently look like Rachel Weiss. (I mean, after YOU have a few drinks, not me.)
Anyway. I was talking to this fellow, Michael, and I discovered the following: He has been an electrical engineer for 25 years. He was in a band. He was in the Air Force for at least six years, did a tour in Vietnam, one in Japan, and one in Oklahoma. He got out because they were going to station him next in Turkey and, frankly, the muslim world makes him a little uneasy.
He had one daughter before he came out of the closet. He recalls giving her a small allowance and then teaching her to budget with it. He emphasized education and sounds like he was a pretty tough dad. He thinks kids today are growing apathetic, lazy, spoiled, and he is worrying about what the overall declining work ethic is going to do to this country.
He thinks if the politicians would get out of the way and let the military do its job, we could handle the Islamofascists "immediately." September 11 didn't make him cry, it made him mad. He's still fiery-eyed about it.
And taxes today! Don't even get him started about how his hard-earned money is going to support an ever-larger stream of illegal aliens who come to this country to take advantage and give little back. He loves his country, his Harley... and some guy named Tony who wears sequins. I am not making this up.
He considers himself rather apolitical because he doesn't pay attention to prevaling political trends enough to know that he is unconsciously fairly conservative.
Now here is my fear: He and many others like him will be repelled back into knee-jerk DNC voting patterns because his perception of conservative thought will be influenced by things like Ann Coulter's blaring comment at CPAC suggesting that John Edwards is... oh, what's the word she used... I can't remember right now but it was one of those words that suggests that she, the uberconservative, feels that gay-baiting epithets are respectable political discourse.
Now, before you say anything, I know what some Freepers will think.
1) If my new buddies are gay, they are simply not the stuff of which conservatism is made. "Here we go," you might sigh. "Another one trying to convince us that gays are just like you and me but for one little, tiny difference." No, I'm not saying that. But conservatism... or at least, a willingness to vote conservative, can come in many guises, and Christianity or any other such moral code is only one. Many of us came to conservatism through Ayn Rand's writings, or through an admiration for our Founding Fathers. Some of us simply grew up and realized that liberal approaches are enabling disasters that encourage humanity to sink ever further into dependence, envy, and mediocrity.
If your conservatism stems from a philosophical or religious conviction that homosexuality flouts, please consider that the salvation of souls is a separate matter from voting for politicians who take our security seriously. Please do not shun or belittle those who might potentially come to agree with you on so many points, simply because they differ from you on this one. We do not want gays, feminists, et al, to be one issue voters. Let us not be one-issue discriminators. I know we would all like for others to live conservatively. But let us not reject the opportunity to encourage them to begin by voting conservatively.
2) The other protest that I have seen already, on different threads, is as follows: Ann is a private citizen, she can say what she wants, only a fool would think that Mitt Romney or Duncan Hunter feels the same way. But I submit to you that this is what I call "insider thinking." Of course, WE know whose stance is what... we are familiar with the nuances of conservative thought. We read up on politics every single day. But compare how an outsider such as Michael (and glittery Tony) views the conservative world: much like we view the muslim world. When a mad mullah or bomb-laden extremist foams at the mouth about decimating Israel and America, we look to the rest of the muslim world as if to say politely "And do you agree?" When all we hear are crickets chirping (and a few bombs going off prematurely because some Palestinian's cell phone got pinged) we notice. And we think, ah. I see. You agree.
If we do not agree, we do indeed have the responsibility to say so, as conservatives.
In fact, at the end of the evening an incident occured that captures this second point nicely. A very intoxicated young man with a penchant for chanting hiphop lyrics in people's faces, and flicking his lighter perilously close to women's noses, tried to put his arm around me. I had already developed a dislike for this one, and gave him a slight elbow while I stepped away. Outraged, he pursued me and I gave him a good shove. My sister told the bouncer and the other guys gathered round and chimed in their outrage. Throw that guy out! The bouncer threw the guy out.
For the next ten minutes, gay men were coming up to me anxiously: Are you alright? He's gone now, don't worry. He was a jerk. I don't like him either. I hope you aren't upset. We aren't all like that. Are you sure you're alright?
They instinctively came to reassure me, knowing that as an outsider, I could not distinguish between them unless they made known their stances. And Tony said, "I may be gay, but I'm still a man. Woman are supposed to be protected, you know?"
I am not on a crusade to get other Freepers to love gays and hang out in West Hollywood with me. There isn't enough parking there as is. And I do not despise Ann Coulter, I like most of what she's said over the years. She's funny, she's witty, she makes connections that dazzle me because I never even noticed them till she pointed them out.
But I disapprove of her use of that word. I rate it almost with the N word if only in terms of its ability to project hostility, belittlement, and a deliberate attempt to hurt. I cannot tell anyone else what to do, but if anyone, gay or not, asks me what *I* thought of her remark, I'm going to tell her: Not all conservatives have the attitude that gays are not to be respected. I disapprove of Ann's use of that word, even for comedy purposes, and I hope it does not scare all the Michaels and Tonys into voting DNC just because they think that the DNC, at least, cares about how they feel.
I did read your whole essay and I have a few thoughts:
1) I agree Ann was way out of line. Comments like that will only alienate the middle ground people
2) Gays certainly can have conservative values of their own...they should not be blacklisted
3) I'll take a gay friend over a corrupt friend any day
4) I have no problem going to a gay bar either
It sounds like you think our GOP presidential candidates should make protecting Ann their top priority.
Get ready for the influx of hate mail you're about to get. ;^)
don't you think we are all just putting WAY TOO MUCH emphasis on homosexuality??
Hanging out in a gay bar... I just don't get it. It sounds like a rather strange thing to do.
Are you gay? And if not why not? Or are you just a gawking dimwit dilletante who likes to stand by and watch life go by instead of engaging in it?
Deservedly so, and at your service Dear Lady.
No, but I do think it is odd that three of them, including McCain who did not even attend CPAC, feel compelled to issue a statement denouncing her. I don't know if their statements were the result of the MSM asking them their position on her remarks or if the candidates initiated the response without being prodded by the MSM.
Again, at the risk of beating a dead horse, the Dem candidates are not being asked nor do they initiate an announcement when Dem/liberal pundits say or write inflammatory things. It is fairly obvious why there is a double standard.
Your right, I had a few of them thru private messages..oh well
I am neither a gawker or a dimwit...I am open minded and non judgemental...something we need more people to be
What is the right thing? Why should Rep candidates for President feel compelled to denounce or disassociate themselves from remarks by a private citizen who holds no position of authority within the Rep party? The double standard is the one practiced by the MSM. The Reps are put on the defensive and must prove that they are not racist, bigotted, sexist, homophobes and the Dems get a free pass.
If I were a Rep candidate, I would certainly would not initiate a statement on the matter and if asked, I would just disassociate myself from the remark making the point I just made about Ann's being a private citizen who is solely responsible for what she says. End of story.
long but please read
For the same reason Dems should denounce Maher: if you don't, people suspect that you agree. Now, if you DO agree, by all means, smile and say nothing. But if not, don't stand by silently while Ann says something like that, and then complain that the MSM paints us all as bigots.
I'll read it when I get the chance, but I can already tell I'm looking at it and thinking "lynching"? "Trial"? Come on. When you shoot off at the mouth like she does, there is going to be ricochet from time to time. If she's going to dish it out like that, sometimes she's going to have to take it. To call criticizing her comment "lynching" is like calling her initial comment about Edwards "crucifying."
Take it as in being silenced? or perhaps being excoriated for using her God given right to freedom of speech?
If you dont like Coulter fine - but I see her as one who won't go quietly or willingly to diversity training classes and the re-education camps.
I am very disturbed when I see conservatives now spouting off the same buzz words that the left using in promoting their agenda and criminalizing what they consider to be "hateful" speech.
Words like "intolerant", "bigot", "hateful", "mean-spirited"
So tell me... does Ann contribute anything to the public debate in your mind? If she does not, would you object to her being silenced?
Say what?????????????????????????????????????????? Can't wait for your next article on your preferred laundry detergent.
This will be my final comment. You just don't get it.
The Dems are not going to denounce Maher and the MSM won't ask them to. They will and have denounced Ann Coulter including people like Ted Kennedy. They are also calling for more Reps to express their outrage and condemn her. In essence, they want our assistance in silencing her and we will not get any credit among gays or anyone else.
The MSM are the allies of the Dems. No matter what we say, they will continue to keep us on the defensive with their "when have you stopped beating your wife questions" and we will continue to look guilty when our politicians feel compelled to distance themselves from the remarks of private citizens. We are not going to change the double standard and the Dems/MSM will continue to paint us as bigots. We shouldn't have to prove we are not bigoted and issuing worthless statements won't satisfy our enemies. George Allen discovered that.
"What conservative movement? The one where liberals act offended and everybody craps their pants?"
I intimately know what it is like to live in a society fearful of what you say...Thanks, expatguy, I hear you load and clear.
(Which is one reason why I removed my tagline a few weeks ago when I returned to the sandpit often referred to as "darul islam").
Those who don't often will not realize what they have, until it's gone.
The thin edge of a very large wedge again.
*Read between the lines
See the link above. Go there and read about the Seattle man who confronted someone with a flag decal on their truck. Other than Free Republic, will you hear or read about that incident anywhere in the MSM? I bet you will not. How much news coverage did Mahr's remark get and how much coverage would it have gotten had AC not made her remark? That's the point everyone who is fainting over AC's remarks fails to understand. You describe this guy as apolitical because he doesn't follow the politcal trends like we do. Yet, he will hear about AC's remarks but he probably will not hear about the Seattle guy going after someone because of the flag on the truck.
Do you see it now? Your solution is for AC or anyone else not to make that kind of statement? But it doesn't matter because if it is not made, then the libs will make stuff up. The libs report Bill Clinton lying about black churches being burned but how many blacks know he made that up? That he never remembered stuff like that? And how many blacks know that prior to the Civil Rights Act of 64, the Dems controlled the south. So, if a black was lynched, murdered, or their churches burned, it was most likely a Dem doing it. And since it doesn't matter, I say Ann and others like her, should be themselves and speak their minds. And you should grow a spine and stop feeling faint whenever someone says something that you consider bad!
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