Libby Jurors: Define 'Reasonable Doubt'

AP via SFGate ^ | 3/2/7 | MICHAEL J. SNIFFEN

[Raycpa]

Is it just me or are there too many negatives used in the sentence to understand what it means?

[AmishDude]

The judge will not answer it anyway. As a poster said above, he will just issue some boilerplate on what reasonable doubt means.

[Purrcival]

Here's the DUmmieland take on this development:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x325198

[AmishDude]

Look at how many memory aids they needed just to deliberate on what they just got finished witnessing.

[San Jacinto]

I've been around a few juries as I have been trying lawsuits for 30+ years. Jury deliberations remain a mysterious process-- kind of a crap shoot in many respects. But one thing is very evident to me from this note. Some of the jurors -probably a majority-- want a conviction and do NOT want a hung jury. Those jurors are now looking to the judge to instruct the recalcitrant jurors as follows: "Look, guys, the govt. doesn't have to prove it is IMPOSSIBLE for Libby to have forgot, thye just have to show it is highly unlikely."

Now here's the kicker--'reasonable doubt' is already defined in the jury charge--it always is-- so the jurors pushing for a conviction are asking the judge for help. Walton should NOT give any other definition than the one already stated in the charge.

[Beckwith]

the "magic of Hollywood" can overcome any truth.

Just yesterday, I saw the film "Courage Under Fire" for the second time. The film was about the first woman to be awarded the Medal of Honor.

I got curious and Googled "Medal of Honor" woman -- lo and behold, the first woman to receive the Medal of Honor was Mary Walker was the first American woman to be a military doctor, a prisoner of war and a Medal of Honor recipient. She was also a Union spy.

So, the whole movie was a lie.

In addition, all of the characters, except Meg Ryan's were flawed soldiers.

Denzel was an alcoholic who's unit committed fratricide. Matt Damon was a junkie. Lou Diamond Phillips critically wounded Meg Ryan's character.

The only real character was Bronson Pinchot's sleazy Clintonista.

[patton]

LOL. Catch 22, you know.

[Beckwith]

"Not humanly possible"

President John F. Kerry

[patton]

I disagree, it is possible.

((shudder))

[DJtex]

Here is the Libby jury:

The jurors include a former Washington Post reporter, an MIT-trained economist, a retired math teacher, a former museum curator, a law firm accountant, a Web architect and several retired or current federal workers. There are 10 whites and two blacks — unexpected in a city where blacks outnumber whites more than 2-to-1.

The museum curator was dismissed.

[antiRepublicrat]

It is sort of a one standard deviation (65%), and two standard deviation (95%) from the mean thingy.

68%, but then I nitpick. :)

[LoneRangerMassachusetts]

"We would like clarification of the term 'reasonable doubt,'" jurors wrote. "Specifically, is it necessary for the government to present evidence that it is not humanly possible for someone not to recall an event in order to find guilt beyond a reasonable doubt."

All these nots have me tied up in a knot. Are these philosophers asking, does the government have to present evidence that is impossible to forget?

So the jurors are wrestling with the kind of evidence or genuine memory of Libby. I think the jury is still out.

[TruthConquers]

I believe it is a double negative. Two not's in that there sentence.

[Catphish]

Do they questions from the jury have to from all or nearly all the jurors? Or can just two or three pose such questions to the judge? It seems like someone is trying to make a point, perhaps to other jurors, rather than ask a question. I think if this is a question that all the jurors have it's headed to a conviction but if it's just a few than it's a hung jury, at least on some of the counts.

[AmishDude]

Fitzgerald's case is melting on its face
All the sweet, impeachment flowing down
Someone left the Plame out in the rain
I don't think that I can take it
'Cause it took so long to fake it
And he'll never have that jury pool again
Oh, noooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

[muawiyah]

Interesting ~ it appears they didn't understand the question though ~

I'd suggest that for many of the DU folks they ingest so many narcotics they never, ever realize they've forgotten anything.

[Publius Valerius]

I agree with you. I read this and I immediately thought "guilty." I don't know whether there is a holdout, but it reads to me like they are close to convicting but want to make absolutely sure before they do.

But we'll see in a few days.

[MPJackal]

"Specifically, is it necessary for the government to present evidence that it is not humanly possible for someone not to recall an event in order to find guilt beyond a reasonable doubt."

"This favors Libby, IMO."

I disagree. They seem to be asking CAN they convict even though the government did not prove that it would be impossible for Libby to just not remember.

[Red Badger]

No, I agree. Your tea leaves are strong, fortune cookie.........

[AmishDude]

Shame on you, Torie. You should have paid top dollar for an expert.