Posted on 02/27/2007 6:06:05 AM PST by Uncledave
Pro abortion. Pro gay marriage for starters.
Your turn.
One issue is abortion.
One issue is the 2nd Amendment.
One issue is Homosexualization of the Culture.
One issue is handing over the politics of the country to illegal aliens and would-be illegals.
One issue is something like a moral life.
True enough, but not really the question at hand.
It's still early, we don't have to get stuck with a pseudoconservative. We can nominate someone who will stand up for all our ideals.
Let's do everything we can to make sure that we don't get to the point where the only choice is Rudy or Hillary.
Who's side am I on? I'm sure if we compared our posting histories over the past few years and sat down together and went over our beliefs on key issues we'd discover we're very much on the same side.
However, to say Giuliani would be no different than Hillary is ridiculous. Are people like Ted Olsen and a fast-growing list of respected conservatives endorsing Rudy all blind and excited to "destroy the constitution", as you might put it?
(((((RUDY PING))))
Please stop spamming the forum keywords.
- Rudy did the same to Fidel Castro at a Dinner.
Answers.com Personalities – Rudy Giuliani
- When a Saudi prince donated millions to 9/11 relief efforts and later suggested that United States policy in the Middle East may have been partially responsible for the attacks, Rudy returned the money.
CNN
- Rudy refused to meet with racial arsonist Al Sharpton.
Right Nation
- Rudy as mayor was strong on law and order. Rudy said that "government exists above all to keep people safe in their homes and in the streets, not to redistribute income, run a welfare state, or perform social engineering". And Rudy backed this all up by going after both quality-of-life crimes and serious crimes. Total crime went down by some 64 percent during the Giuliani years, and murder went down 67 percent. Auto thefts went down on average about 80,000 per year.
Bureau of Justice Statistics – U.S. Department of Justice
New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani's Fiscal Record: 1993-2001 – Deroy Murdock – National Review
- Rudy supported the police when the police had to enter and deal with Muslims at a mosque.
Village Voice
- Rudy closed down many porn shops across the city and specifically shutdown porn shops in residential neighborhoods.
Reference.com – Rudy Giuliani
Bureau of Justice Statistics – U.S. Department of Justice
New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani's Fiscal Record: 1993-2001 – Deroy Murdock – National Review
- Rudy went after both low level and high level drug dealers for the first time in the cities history.
City Journal
Bureau of Justice Statistics – U.S. Department of Justice
New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani's Fiscal Record: 1993-2001 – Deroy Murdock – National Review
- Rudy had zero tolerance for quality of life crimes such as squeegee extortionists, graffiti vandals, panhandling and public urination.
City Journal
Samoa
New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani's Fiscal Record: 1993-2001 – Deroy Murdock – National Review
- Rudy launched a welfare revolution, removing illegal recipients, cutting the rolls by 20% the first year alone and dropping the welfare rolls by 600,000 over the course of his plan.
NY POST
Mayor Giuliani Delivers Eighth And Final “State Of The City” Address
New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani's Fiscal Record: 1993-2001 – Deroy Murdock – National Review
- Rudy launched a work requirement program for the remaining welfare recipients. the NY Times called it slavery.
Mayor Giuliani Delivers Eighth And Final “State Of The City” Address
NY Times
New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani's Fiscal Record: 1993-2001 – Deroy Murdock – National Review
- Rudy constantly spoke out against illegitimacy and fatherless families. One of many things that Rudy said on the subject was the following: " If you wanted a social program that would really save these kids, . I guess the social program would be called fatherhood.
" Rudy Giuliani “State of the City” Address
Mayor Giuliani Delivers Eighth And Final “State Of The City” Address
New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani's Fiscal Record: 1993-2001 – Deroy Murdock – National Review
- Rudy objected to affirmative action. Rudy ended the cities set-aside program for minority contractors.
CA Political News
- Rudy rejected the idea of lowering the job requirement standards for minorities and woman. - Rudy said. "it was unfair to expect middle-class kids to work their way through college by holding down jobs and going to classes while exempting students on welfare from working.
" CA Political News
New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani's Fiscal Record: 1993-2001 – Deroy Murdock – National Review
- Rudy reformed the public school system and forced out liberal chancellors who wouldn't install his reforms.
A Plan to Reform our Public Schools-and the Commitment to Go Further
- Rudy tried to privatize 5 of the cities worst public schools.
Heartland
A Plan to Reform our Public Schools-and the Commitment to Go Further
- Rudy was for school vouchers Rudy said, "The whole notion of choice is really about more freedom for people, rather than being subjugated by a government system that says you have no choice about the education of your child,".
A Plan to Reform our Public Schools-and the Commitment to Go Further
- Rudy fought against public money for an art display that defiled Christ and he fought against other obscene so-called works of art.
Daily Nebraskan
- Rudy played hardball with city unions winning concessions from city workers that other mayors had failed to do.
NY Times
Union Politicking in the N.Y.C. Elections
New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani's Fiscal Record: 1993-2001 – Deroy Murdock – National Review
- Rudy strong armed state leaders to merge the cities Housing Police and Transit Police into the NYPD saving the city hundreds of millions. Rudy did this by threatening to fire every housing and transit officer and rehire each as a city cop if legislative leaders did not go along.
NY Times
New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani's Fiscal Record: 1993-2001 – Deroy Murdock – National Review
- Rudy did the same with the city’s garbageman, many of whom worked only half days because the department was so overstaffed with union jobs. Rudy won $300 million in savings from them by threatening to contract out trash collection to private companies.
City Journal
New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani's Fiscal Record: 1993-2001 – Deroy Murdock – National Review
- Rudy cut or killed 23 levies and taxes, saving taxpayers $9.8 billion during his terms.
Manhattan Institute
GoVote.com
New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani's Fiscal Record: 1993-2001 – Deroy Murdock – National Review
- Rudy cut NYC's top income-tax rate by 20.6%.
A Budget for a Strong and Stable Economic Future
GoVote.com
New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani's Fiscal Record: 1993-2001 – Deroy Murdock – National Review
- Local NYC taxes on a family of four dropped 23.7% during Rudy's term.
Manhattan Institute
GoVote.com
New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani's Fiscal Record: 1993-2001 – Deroy Murdock – National Review
- Rudy cut the commercial-rent tax.
Columbia.edu
New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani's Fiscal Record: 1993-2001 – Deroy Murdock – National Review
- Rudy cut sales taxes, including taxes on clothing.
A Budget for a Strong and Stable Economic Future
GoVote.com
New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani's Fiscal Record: 1993-2001 – Deroy Murdock – National Review
- Rudy cut the marriage penalty on taxpaying couples.
GoVote.com
New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani's Fiscal Record: 1993-2001 – Deroy Murdock – National Review>
- Rudy cut taxes on commercial rents everywhere outside of Manhattan’s major business districts, and various taxes on small businesses and self-employed New Yorkers.
Mayor Giuliani Delivers Eighth And Final “State Of The City” Address
New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani's Fiscal Record: 1993-2001 – Deroy Murdock – National Review
- Rudy's expenditure growth averaged 2.9% annually, while local inflation between January 1994 and December 2001 averaged 3.6%.
Urban Futures
New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani's Fiscal Record: 1993-2001 – Deroy Murdock – National Review
- Rudy privatized municipal assets.
Reason Public Policy Institute
- Rudy sold WNYC radio for $20 million, WNYC-TV for $207 million, and NYC's share of the U.N. Plaza Hotel for $85 million.
Scripps Howard News Service
- Rudy divested the City from the New York Coliseum adding $345 million to city coffers.
Second Inaugural Address by Archives of Rudolph W. Giuliani
- Rudy let the private Central Park Conservancy manage Central Park.
ABC News
- Rudy cut NYC's hotel tax from 6% to 5%. Consequently, hotel tax revenues increased from $135 million in Fiscal Year 1995 to $239 million in FY 2001.
The Entrepreneurial City Archives of Rudolph W. Giuliani The Manhattan Institute
New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani's Fiscal Record: 1993-2001 – Deroy Murdock – National Review
- When asked if Rudy would raise taxes after 9/11 Rudy said that would be "a dumb, stupid, idiotic, and moronic thing to do.
" American Spectator
- A quote from Rudy on his economic philosophy: “City government should not and cannot create jobs through government planning. The best it can do, and what it has a responsibility to do, is to deal with its own finances first, to create a solid budgetary foundation that allows businesses to move the economy forward on the strength of their energy and ideas. After all, businesses are and have always been the backbone of New York City.
” City Journal
- Construction permits increased by more than 50% in the city per year during Rudy's terms.
Mayor Giuliani Delivers Eighth And Final “State Of The City” Address
New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani's Fiscal Record: 1993-2001 – Deroy Murdock – National Review
- Tourism increased 50% in the city per year during Rudy's terms.
NYC.GOV
New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani's Fiscal Record: 1993-2001 – Deroy Murdock – National Review
- City jobs increased by 430,000 to an all time high of 3.72 million during Rudy's terms.
City Journal
New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani's Fiscal Record: 1993-2001 – Deroy Murdock – National Review
- City personal income increased 50% during Rudy's terms.
CapitalCA News
New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani's Fiscal Record: 1993-2001 – Deroy Murdock – National Review
- The percentage income that city residence paid in taxes declined from 8.8 to 7.3 percent during Rudy's terms.
City Journal
New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani's Fiscal Record: 1993-2001 – Deroy Murdock – National Review
- Unemployment in the city went form 10.3% to 5.1% during Rudy's terms.
The Claremont Institute
New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani's Fiscal Record: 1993-2001 – Deroy Murdock – National Review
- Rudy was an outstanding leader during the 9/11 crisis.
Time Magazine
- Rudy has been a strong supporting in our WOT including supporting the mission in Iraq.
Counsel on Foreign Relations
- Rudy was chosen by Ronald Reagan in 1981 as an Associate Attorney General placing him in the third highest position in the Reagan's DOJ.
Wikipedia
- In 1983, Rudy was appointed by Reagan to be U.S. Attorney for the SD of NY. In that position, Rudy amassed 4,152 convictions including the heads of NY's so-called "Five Families". Rudy also prosecuted terrorists and illegal immigrants.
Wikipedia
Aside from the dispute about what a true libertarian position would be regarding abortion (i.e., the competing rights of a pregnant woman and her unborn child), Rudy Giuliani isn't just "pro-abortion" at all. He has long been a proud supporter of providing taxpayer funding for abortion, which is about as anti-libertarian as you can possibly get on this issue.
A true libertarian would take no sides in the "gay marriage" dispute, but would instead call for (as I have done here) the government to get out of the "marriage business" entirely. Marriage today has become nothing more than a construct of nanny-state government, in that it primarily confers financial benefits related to the tax code and other "rights" that have no place in a truly free country (i.e., the "right" to demand spousal benefits, Social Security survivor benefits, etc.).
Rudy Giuliani is not a libertarian in any sense of the word. In fact, I would suggest that you'd be hard-pressed to find any former Federal proseuctors who could even remotely be called "libertarian" in their outlook.
Giuliani's outright hostility to the Second Amendment should dispel any notions about his underlying political philosophy. He has a big-government, totalitarian approach to politics that is molded into different forms (liberal, conservative, libertarian, dictatorial, downright illegal, etc.) depending on his own personal views on any given issue.
This is a man who has no respect for the law or for any political philosophy at all.
Thanks for playing . . . now try again.
I LOVE IT! My new tagline!
Are you saying that Republicans can never go to a costume party and have some fun?
It's getting sickening to watch how the Rudy-Apologists are trying to portray Rudy's STRONG LIBERAL BIAS'S as some sort of Libertarian leanings.
That kind of sophistry and dishonesty is getting very tiresome!!
That is a very good question to pose.
I won't pretend to know the answer - but I like to use this story / quotes to outline how Rudy "gets along"
(Taking over in the NYC US Attorney's office.)
Rudy Giuliani:
My name is Rudolph Giuliani. I've wanted this job for a long time. To me, there is no greater prize than US Prosecutor for the Southern District of New York City. This office should be the crown jewel of the United States Justice Department... but it is not. And why? Because you have gotten fat. You are lazy prima donnas, spending 2 and 3 years on cases you are never gonna make. If there's anyone in this room who thinks otherwise, please speak up. Good. Now that we agree on that, let's talk about what we are going to do about it.
[Giuliani begins to circle the room as he speaks.]
Rudy Giuliani:
We, gentlemen... are about to unleash the dogs of war. War. War against drug dealers, war against the Mafia - and yes, Mr. Hoover, there is a Mafia - against corrupt politicians and stockbrokers...
[Giuliani comes up behind one of the officials who is obviously asleep.]
Rudy Giuliani:
Against crooked judges... and bent cops. How, you may wonder, do we end corruption... BY SCARING THE LIVING SHIT out of the criminal! And their families, if we have to.
[The sleeping man bolts upright in his chair; Giuliani addresses him directly]
Rudy Giuliani:
Get up. Get up, and get out. You want to sleep on my time, do it at the Motel 6. Don't speak, get out.
[The man leaves; Giuliani resumes addressing the entire room]
Rudy Giuliani:
It's not astrophysics. It's called The Law. And the law is about to become a stark, concrete reality for those who would break it. This is New York City. I love this city! This is the greatest city in the world, and I am going to make it safe for people to live in again, so help me God, and each and every one of you is going to help me. Because, gentlemen, this is not merely our job, it is our privilege. I will see you on the barricades.
Proabortionists (Giuliani included) deny the existence of an "unborn child." Because the fetus is simply a clump of cells, it has no rights. Under that definition the libertarian position (Rudy's included) is quite clear.
A true libertarian would take no sides in the "gay marriage" dispute, but would instead call for (as I have done here) the government to get out of the "marriage business" entirely.
A nice thought, but unfortunately the government is repeatedly called upon by both sides to clearly define the terms of marriage. Rudy demonstrated his preference.
The "clump of cells" position is not supported by science, and even the most ardent pro-abortionists only maintain this position for the sake of maintaining an acceptable political posture. I'd also point out that under the biggest political point of contention on this issue -- the idiotic Roe v. Wade decision -- there is a tacit admission that this "clump of cells" may actually be a human being. The fact that the U.S. Supreme court then went and dismissed this important fact makes its decision all the more reprehensible.
I wonder if Rudy Giuliani would have taken the same silly "libertarian" approach to slavery in the 1850s. His track record indicates that he might well have done so -- which is simply one more reason why he has no place in the Republican Party.
A nice thought, but unfortunately the government is repeatedly called upon by both sides to clearly define the terms of marriage. Rudy demonstrated his preference.
Even his preference is hardly "libertarian" at all, since it excludes all of those (polygamists, for example) who would still be excluded from marriage under his definition.
I think you're making a common mistake here by looking at positions Rudy Giuliani has taken for nothing more than political expediency, and extrapolating them into an underlying political philosophy that he simply does not have.
If your characterization of Rudy Giuliani is correct, then he'd be the first libertarian in the history of mankind to believe than law-abiding citizens have no right to protect themselves -- from either their neighbors OR THEIR GOVERNMENT.
Rudy, and all other pro-abortionists don't care what is or is not supported by science. If you give women a right to "choose" you are acknoledging that the unborn are less than human. Period.
I have not heard Giuliani's opinion of polygamy, and neither have you. In any case, the polygamy argument is basically a straw man.
There are plenty of libertarians who favor some gun control in big cities. I gave you two clear examples to your one. What else do you have?
America is becoming more socialist and liberal.. even here at free republic..
HITLERY once elected should cure much of that..
Because if Rudy Giuliani will do ANYTHING...
It will be to GET HITLERY elected.. (w/mandate)
and the lost of many seats in the House and Senate..
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