Posted on 02/26/2007 7:38:11 AM PST by cougar_mccxxi
This movie is moving around the country. They are sometimes having discussions after it. I think that anyone who thinks they know what happened at Waco has another thing coming.
(Excerpt) Read more at waco93.com ...
They didn't call the operation "Showtime" for nothing.
I always found it interesting that BATF guys, even after copious amounts of adult beverages wouldn't cop out to everything they knew.
I suspect the whole truth isn't out there yet.
I took this statement to mean that a "Conservative" in your dictionary has nothing to do with gun ownership. Was that incorrect?
I think that a person who identifies as a conservative should be in favor of the Bill of Rights (which includes the 2nd Amendment.)
I suspect it won't ever be.
I have never advocated tossing out ANY part of the Constitution.
I just don't base ALL my value judgments on gun ownership. The second amendment is not the ONLY amendment - nor is it the most important amendment.
I don't know where you live - but I bet you don't live in Detroit, where I do and where the guns outnumber the population by a ratio of 3 to 1.
When you live surrounded by criminal thugs who all carry weapons - you are not always wild about the idea of them having even MORE guns.
I suppose if I was living in Lily-whitehood or a rural area, I might look at it differently.
"Steve Willis, Robert Williams, Todd McKeahan & Conway LeBleu: Died Feburary 28, 1993 by gunfire at Waco. All four were examined by a pathologist and died from identical wounds to the left temple. All four had been body guards for Bill Clinton, three while campaigning for President and when he was Governor of Arkansas.They also were the ONLY 4 BATF agents killed at Waco. "
Google "Clinton Body Count"
google "clinton body count" and see my last post too
But those guns are not limited to the criminal element.
Instead, they are in the hands of farmers and ranchers and even the folks in town, who, even though they are an hour away from the nearest sheriff's unit, have the capability of stopping a crime in progress close at hand.
There are demographic differences as well, but North Dakota has one of the lowest violent crime rates in the country.
When you live surrounded by criminal thugs who all carry weapons - you are not always wild about the idea of them having even MORE guns.
The criminal elements are not supposed to have guns anyway, but that would be all the more incentive for ME to be armed to defend against them. YMMV.
If the current laws against criminals (felons) possessing a firearm are not working, do you think a few more will make any difference in their being armed?
Nope.
It will only make it harder for you to be, assuming you are not ranked among them, of course.
What, pray tell, is the sense in that?
It may be none of my business, but if things are that bad there, why don't you move?
I was hoping for something more authoritative than that hokey Clinton body count list. So much of it has already been debunked.
Nope. It didn't--and doesn't. Not as a Law enforceent operation, not in a tactical sense, and certainly not within a legal and Constitutional framework.
Not one thing about it made sense.
Frankly, that scared a lot of people, but the response was not one of cowering in corners, but drawing up contingency plans, what-if scenarios, and the bad guys in those scenarios were wearing badges of one sort or another.
All that could be viscerally understood (the common sense level) was that the government had this power, they were willing to use it without regard to the law, and you'd likely end up dead if a whole bunch of friends didn't cover your back.
So, the whole while Clinton was ranting against evil 'white supremacist'* right-winged militias, his actions were spurring their creation. *This "white supremacist" bit was proven a mischaracterization, too, as the head of the Ohio organization was black, the Montana Militia guy was married to an American Indian, etc.
Mostly, though, there were isolated farmers and ranchers, who had outbuildings (A Compound!) and who knew they were not well enough understood in TV-land and cities to avoid being demonized in the press with sweeping allegations of most anything from beastiality to running a cult to illegal whatever.
Sheesh! If this could be done to a church group, a branch of the Seventh Day Adventists (Hence, Branch Davidian), what could happen to some farmer or rancher, any time someone somewhere decided they wanted their land.
Needless to say, such a display of unbridled and unrestrained force as Waco (and the blatant actions of the FBI involved in taking over the op which reeked of coverup) caused conspiracy theories to abound as well.
In the event any POTUS signs on to an "assault weapons ban", you can pretty much expect that sentiment to be revived, especially if someone expects anyone who owns a firearm today legally to give it up tomorrow.
Needless to say, such a ban has the potential to create an entire class of 'criminals' out of otherwise law-abiding people, and even worse, the potential to get a bunch of people hurt or killed.
Just as Waco was unnecessary, so is further gun control, and all the ugly things which would come with it.
One interesting aspect, is that the media (and the Clintons) played rural folks off of city folks, taking full advantage of the cultural rift present to demonize rural residents in the eyes of urban denizens.
A shed, a workshop, a barn and a house became in the eyes of the media an "armed compound", and the hyperbole escalated from there.
Those were sad days for this nation, and for any respectable L.E.O. out there.
And like you, I fail to understand why an allegedly "crackpot" preacher in Texas garnered the attention of the POTUS, Atty. General, etc. The whole thing should have been a local op, or at least been started as one from the start. My bet is that just the sheriff and a couple of guys coming up to the door could have gained entry, said they'd need some help after a couple of minutes, and trickled in enough people over the course of an hour or two to secure the building without ever drawing a firearm.
What happened? The federal government murdered an entire compound without trial, jury or due process over a possible 200 dollar violation of tax laws.
Don't forget Douglas MacArthur, Eisenhower or Patton either. Lookup the Bonus Army 1930's. It's pretty damned shameful as well.
I came across it by accident channel surfing the other day and needless to say it held my attention the entire time. The FLIR video examination showing gunfire during the breaching of the building walls left me stunned.
Yes with 20-20 hindsight, I agree. Who knows, Elian Gonsalez may have been one of Castro's illegitimate children.
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