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"Waco: The Rules of Engagement" Review
waco93 ^ | 9/17/97 | Siskel & Ebert

Posted on 02/26/2007 7:38:11 AM PST by cougar_mccxxi

This movie is moving around the country. They are sometimes having discussions after it. I think that anyone who thinks they know what happened at Waco has another thing coming.

(Excerpt) Read more at waco93.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Government
KEYWORDS: engagement; rules; the; waco
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To: rawcatslyentist
Just what did they have that made the govt/Klintoons want to murder American men women and children?

Bullet holes coming down through the roof at a high angle, would be my guess.

There was a great deal of physical evidence in that building which would have shown the place to be a crime scene, and I fully believe, the Feds to be the perpetrators.

Randy Weaver, Gordon Kahl, and Koresh (and doubtless, others) could have all been arrested alone, in town or elsewhere, and without gunplay had the desire been there to do so. Instead, the agencies involved opted for grandstand raid and strongarm tactics designed to intimidate, which backfired.

61 posted on 02/26/2007 10:21:19 AM PST by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly.)
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To: bmwcyle

Correction Lon Horiuchi was the sniper at Ruby Ridge Idaho that shot an UNARMED Vicki Weaver in the head while she was holding a baby in her arms in accordance with rules of engagment. those rules stated that any adult that was seen was to shot dead on site regardles of whether they were armed or not.


62 posted on 02/26/2007 10:29:04 AM PST by Nebr FAL owner (.308 reach out & thump someone .50 cal.Browning Machine gun reach out & crush someone)
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To: fella

I still remamber the wind that day. It was brutal.


63 posted on 02/26/2007 10:29:24 AM PST by davetex (There are no stupid questions, however there does seem to be an abundance of inquisitive idiots.)
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To: Fee

So explain to me again why we are allowing the Saudis to set up jihadi indotrination & combat arms training schools(mosques) in this country . Explain please why the Nation of Islam has the "Fruits of Islam " Security corp.


64 posted on 02/26/2007 10:34:07 AM PST by Nebr FAL owner (.308 reach out & thump someone .50 cal.Browning Machine gun reach out & crush someone)
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To: Fee
Allowing small militias that can potentially grow into large militias will be seen as a potential threat.

Well, that certainly backfired! Waco did more to cause the expansion of the militia movement than any other single incident in the last century.

BTW, the firearms do not have to be identical, only of the same caliber.

Why do you think the liberals are pushing gun bans, especially "assault weapon" bans.

The second amendment was never about hunting, but to safeguard the right of the people to own in sufficient numbers weapons for the purpose of securing their liberty from a government run amok with power. The idea was perfectly in concert with the thoughts of people who had just overthrown the British rule through the force of arms, starting with and often using their private arms in battle. Banning such arms is the opening gambit in a tyrant's game, and I trust no candidate who espouses such a prohibition.

65 posted on 02/26/2007 10:35:29 AM PST by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly.)
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To: Smokin' Joe
Bullet holes coming down through the roof at a high angle, would be my guess.

That explains the destruction of evidence. What was the initial motivation for this assault?

66 posted on 02/26/2007 10:43:08 AM PST by rawcatslyentist ("The liberty we prize is not America’s gift to the world, it is God’s gift to humanity.”GWB-03)
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To: Nebr FAL owner

He was also at WACO.


67 posted on 02/26/2007 10:51:06 AM PST by bmwcyle (It is time to stop the left at the wall.)
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To: TexasCajun
The drug dealer angle (meth lab) doesn't fly. At the time meth was produced in very dangerous clandestine labs using a cooking (hot) process, unlike the bathtub meth more common today. The DEA had a course (two weeks long, iirc) on how to take down a meth lab and not have it blow up and destroy the evidence. In effect, how to identify what stage the process was in, how to get the reactions to a 'safe' point, and shut the lab down and preserve the evidence.

OSHA had a course on the chemicals involved and their combinations which could result from unintended combinations thereof, a definite possibility in a drug raid. Not one of the agents on the raid team had had either course.

Other excuses were fielded as well, but the DEA should have taken down a drug lab.

Texas CPS should have investigated allegations of abuse, physical o sexual which were bandied about.

The last agency which should have gone in was the BATF.

one more thing, the phones were tapped.(the 9-1-1 tape has the phone ringing on it like you hear when you make the call, not when you answer the phone. The agency knew the Davidian who worked for the USPS who had been asked for directions to Mt. Carmel by a media team coming to film the raid had warned Koresh of the impending raid, yet they ran the operation anyway.

It all reeks of a provoked, grandstanding incident which was later used to demonize Christians of any stripe as crackpots and dangerous domestic terrorists, the whole while decrying firearm ownership.

That is the very sort of tyranny the second amendment would have us be armed against.

68 posted on 02/26/2007 10:51:10 AM PST by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly.)
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To: bmwcyle

Horiuchi wasn't BATF, he was HRT (FBI Hostage Rescue Team).


69 posted on 02/26/2007 10:52:50 AM PST by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly.)
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To: Nebr FAL owner; bmwcyle
Lon Horiuchi was the sniper at Ruby Ridge Idaho that shot an UNARMED Vicki Weaver in the head while she was holding a baby in her arms in accordance with rules of engagment. those rules stated that any adult that was seen was to shot dead on site regardles of whether they were armed or not.

This was under the leadership of W's dad: BUSH SR

70 posted on 02/26/2007 10:55:14 AM PST by Uri’el-2012 (you shall know that I, YHVH, your Savior, and your Redeemer, am the Elohim of Ya’aqob.”Isaiah 60:16)
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To: Mr. K

"Answer: Several former clintoon bodyguards were killed at that fiasco- by 'friendly fire' too"

Do you have a source handy where I can read about this?


71 posted on 02/26/2007 11:01:10 AM PST by gracesdad
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To: Spirochete
no one is going to care as long as there's a six-pack in the fridge and a ball game on.

....and an Anna Nicole Smith/Britany Spears/American Idol/Deal or No Deal contestant to obsess about.

72 posted on 02/26/2007 11:03:55 AM PST by Tokra (I think I'll retire to Bedlam.)
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To: penowa
if you look at the posters on FR, you discover that at least 1/3 of self-identifying conservatives don't give a rip about the 2nd Amendment

Look up the word "Conservative" in the dictionary. You will NOT see the definition "gun owner".

There are a lot of other issues that people can be conservative about besides gun ownership.

Would you call a tax-loving gunowner a Conservative?

I wouldn't.

73 posted on 02/26/2007 11:07:34 AM PST by Tokra (I think I'll retire to Bedlam.)
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To: rawcatslyentist
There were a number of different alleged motives.

Eventually, it was claimed they were serving a search warrant, which was testified to in the hearings before Congress to have been for grenade casings which had been observed by a delivery driver in a ruptured package.

Those casings which would likely have been used to make inert novelty 'grenades' (complaint dept, take a number) by the gun show cottage industry contingent there were not in and of themselves a prohibited item.

The same week as the raid, the "Sinful Messiah" tabloid-style front page newspaper stories came out, alleging that Koresh wash having sex with children and spanking babies...

Allegations of a meth lab on the premises were made as well.

Neither of the second two were in the purview of the BATF, the former dubious, simply because you do not arrive with two cattle trailers full of agents and the media in tow to simply serve a search warrant.

As the ATF had been invited by Koresh to inspect the business, (which dealers must, by law allow) and declined earlier, it seems strange they did not just drive up in the ordinary fleet of suburbans and produce the warrant and do the search.

No one present at the door had a copy of the warrant, either, which seems strange if that is what they were there to do.

FYI, the Davidians had a few cottage industries to generate income, one was the FFL dealership which did the gun-show circuit, another was a christian rock band, and yet another (off premises) restored cars and did automotive bodywork. The firearms related business was only one of those businesses.

74 posted on 02/26/2007 11:13:16 AM PST by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly.)
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To: Tokra

And you are apparently another one of those 1/3 who doesn't think we should conserve our original Constitution and prefers instead a "living" one.


75 posted on 02/26/2007 11:14:02 AM PST by penowa (NO more Bushes; NO more Clintons EVER!)
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To: penowa
And you are apparently another one of those 1/3 who doesn't think we should conserve our original Constitution and prefers instead a "living" one.

And if you get THAT idea from my posts, then you are apparently illiterate or a fool.

I have never said anything to imply that our Constitution should ever be changed.

I just have a problem with "one-issue" "litmus-test" so-called conservatives.

The term "conservative" covers a lot of areas. You can't pick out your own personal sacred cow and base everything on that one issue.

Or maybe you can.

76 posted on 02/26/2007 11:17:47 AM PST by Tokra (I think I'll retire to Bedlam.)
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To: cougar_mccxxi

I saw this movie several years ago....it was not Chuckie Shumer's (and other politicos) best moment.


77 posted on 02/26/2007 11:20:47 AM PST by GSWarrior
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To: Nebr FAL owner

"arms training schools(mosques) in this country . Explain please why the Nation of Islam has the "Fruits of Islam " Security corp."

another 9/11 and there will be no Mosques. Islam can clean their own mess of someone will do it for them.


78 posted on 02/26/2007 11:23:38 AM PST by hadaclueonce (shoot low, they are riding Shetlands.....)
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To: Tokra
Whether or not you own a gun is moot, if you accept that the Second Amendment of the Constitution guarantees the individual citizen the right to keep and bear arms, free of limitation.

Keep in mind that that right was written down there by folks who had just overthrown the British tyrany, and the security of a free state was to be guaranteed by the citizens being armed in sufficient numbers to resist tyranny from any source, including their own government.

I have a hard time considering those who would toss out parts of the Constitution 'conservative', whether or not they wish to exercise the rights enumerated therein.

79 posted on 02/26/2007 11:26:47 AM PST by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly.)
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To: Mr. K

links please ... a comment that bombastic requires substantiation with it.


80 posted on 02/26/2007 11:32:00 AM PST by MHGinTN (If you've had life support. Promote life support for others.)
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