Rudy Giuliani: [to SC Firefighters & Police] 'A Woman Has the Right to Choose Abortion'

Associated Press/Newsmax.com ^ | 2.22.07 | staff report

[meg88]

hursday, Feb. 22, 2007 8:13 a.m. EST

Rudy Giuliani: 'A Woman Has the Right to Choose' Abortion

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Republican presidential hopeful Rudy Giuliani met with firefighters and police officers in this early voting state Wednesday, using the forum to reference the Sept. 11 terror attacks, which earned him national attention.

"The first people that arrive on the scene of the bombing or the anthrax attack ... it's going to be one of your brothers or your sisters or you that gets to do it," the former New York mayor told a crowd of about 200 emergency workers. "Your ability to do it well will once again determine if we save lives - save America."

Giuliani compared firefighters and police to uniformed military personnel and said the federal Department of Homeland Security needs to ensure first responders "have the training and protection you need to defend your country."

Giuliani has a tough road ahead in South Carolina, which is to host the first Southern primaries in 2008. His moderate positions on gun control and support for abortion rights do not sit well with the state's Christian conservatives, who accounted for a third of the 2000 GOP primary vote. Those voters swung heavily to President Bush that year, giving him a 2-1 ratio margin over Arizona Sen. John McCain, who was viewed as soft on abortion.

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On Wednesday, Giuliani reiterated his own position.

"I'd advise my daughter or anyone else not to have an abortion," Giuliani said. "I'd like to see it ended, but ultimately I believe that a woman has the right to choose.

"I believe that you've got to run based on who you are, what you really are and then people actually get a right to disagree with you," he said. "And I find if you do it that way, even people who disagree with you sometimes respect you."

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"We're a tremendous amount of time away from an election," he said. "We haven't even gotten to a primary yet. The best thing we can do now is organize."

© 2007 Associated Press.

[Mr. Silverback]

Sickening. You're saying that when the criminal cannot be found, the woman has to bear the pain of not only seeing the man who attacked her, go free, but also to bear his child. You're an evil, evil man.

Forgive me for jumping in here, Elsie, but this just needed immediate attention.

Why don't you get off your high moral horse? Your need to demonize the people who disagree with you on this issue says a lot about you. What Elsie and I are saying is that a small child should not have his limbs ripped off for somebody else's crime. That's the result of what you're advocating, period.

[Mr. Silverback]

I don't support Roe. You do support prohibiting states from allowing abortions. Please cite the part of the Constitution where it says that states don't have the right to allow abortion.

Too easy. Check out the 14th Amendment, section I:

Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Now, after reading that, do you continue to support the existence legalized abortion in any state? If so, show me the science that says a fetus is not a human life, or where in the Constitution a state is allowed to deprive some people of life without due process, but not others.

While you're at it, perhaps you could cite the part of the Constitution that says a state can't legalize killing people who have used screen names beginning with the letter "L."

[Mr. Silverback]

I think every single man should claim to be the father of her baby. There's always a possibility the DNA lab would screw up the test...it's like buying a free lottery ticket for a $500 million jackpot.

Such a sad case.

[Mr. Silverback]

So, if the Supreme Court decided tomorrow that it's not murder if you kill someone whose screen name begins with the letter S, you'll be OK with that?

[Mr. Silverback]

Abortion is unique, can't be compared to anything else.

Oh, I dunno, I think it is comparable to any other situation where somebody dismembers a small child.

[linda_22003]

I've definitely given my husband permission to put in a claim, but no one's called to take any samples yet.

[George W. Bush]

And I think that's what he will do, even if he agrees with the result of Roe. I think you can be pro-choice, without supporting imposing a nationwide solution.

This is almost as confused as Rudy's own position. Sadly, I think you're sincere and he actually knows the flimflam he's selling you. No doubt, we'll debate this on other threads.

Isn't overturning Roe v. Wade one of the goals of the pro-life movement? What would you have them do, if you think that a US without Roe will have the exact same results?

The pro-life movement knows better than to expect any pro-choicer to do us any favors at all.

NARAL-endorsed candidates can never be our friends unless they utterly repudiate their support for infanticide in a convincing way that they can never take back again.

[Mr. Silverback]

Well, I can't believe those people. I always what drives some people to worry so much about what other people are doing when it does not harm another person (or unborn person) - for example, using birth control.

You obviously read post 435, since you responded to it by whining that I hadn't answered any of your posts yet. So, if there are five Freepers who think that the Pill should be outlawed and a hundred who think Lincoln was the 19th Century Hitler, then one has to ask, why do the opinions of those five Freepers matter to you? Defensive, much?

I always what drives some people to worry so much about what other people are doing when it does not harm another person (or unborn person) - for example, using birth control.

Nice straw man you've got going there. I defy you to show me a post on FR or a statement by any pro-life activist where they say we should outlaw birth control (or abortion) because the type of sex people are having is not right.

Those who oppose abortion, and the infinitesimal number of people who oppose birth control, do so precisely because they believe those activities harm a living human being. As I said, I defy you to prove otherwise.

[LtdGovt]

Why don't you get off your high moral horse?

Why should I? You have a patent on that kind of behavior?

Your need to demonize the people who disagree with you on this issue says a lot about you. What Elsie and I are saying is that a small child should not have his limbs ripped off for somebody else's crime. That's the result of what you're advocating, period.

Elsie said something that was different. He said that an abortion is permissible, only if the rapist is caught, tried and convicted. In my opinion, that is evil. Only a small fraction of the total number of rapes reach that stage, unfortunately, and if you recognize the fact that rape victims need to have access to abortions, then you need to cover them all.

Of course, we all prefer that they take morning-after-pills. But it isn't always possible. I don't think you or I can understand how traumatic such an event is.

[Mr. Silverback]

You are a wise woman. :-) I haven't brought up the subject with my wife, but even if I got her permission, I'm sure the court would say, "Yeah, like you had a chance!"

[jmc813]

You obviously feel abortion is murder of an innocent human life.

You don't?

[LtdGovt]

Now, after reading that, do you continue to support the existence legalized abortion in any state?

It's not a matter of personal opinion, but I don't see anything in the part you cited, that would prevent states from making abortion legal. It's disconcerting that you would support judicial activism when it suits you.

If so, show me the science that says a fetus is not a human life,

That's up to the states to determine.

[LtdGovt]

So, if the Supreme Court decided tomorrow that it's not murder if you kill someone whose screen name begins with the letter S, you'll be OK with that?

Absolutely, Mr. Silverback.

Just kidding, you don't seem like a bad person.

[MHGinTN]

"I'd advise my daughter or anyone else not to have an abortion," Giuliani said. "I'd like to see it ended, but ultimately I believe that a woman has the right to choose. To choose what, Mister Mayor?

Why can't someone educate Rudy and other Republicans that 'choose' could be made to mean choose to end a pregnancy but without authorizing the murder of an alive unborn child. But then, that wouldn't be the same thing that this man and too many other Republicans have approved as 'choice', so I guess that's the reason he and other Pubbies keep making this same idiot response on the issue.

Choose what, Rudy?... Choose to hire a serial killer to off an alive unborn child! What a guy, what a law and order guy, what a Republican. Yetch!

[LtdGovt]

This is almost as confused as Rudy's own position. Sadly, I think you're sincere and he actually knows the flimflam he's selling you. No doubt, we'll debate this on other threads.

No doubt. But since many issues have been resolved, sometimes temporarily, through allowing states to make their own decisions, I can't see why anyone - pro-life, pro-choice - cannot be in favor of something like that.

The pro-life movement knows better than to expect any pro-choicer to do us any favors at all.

In 2003, the last time the Harkin amendment came up in the Senate, affirming Roe v. Wade, it passed by 52-46. If the others had been present, it would have been 53-47. Now, weren't those 7 pro-choice Republicans doing the pro-life movement a favor by being a Republican? They were voting for the pro-life leadership of the GOP, and that helped the pro-life movement to set the agenda.

[Mr. Silverback]

Why should I? You have a patent on that kind of behavior?

If opposing the dismemberment of small children means I'm on a high moral horse, just call me Silverback the Singing Cowboy.

Elsie said something that was different. He said that an abortion is permissible, only if the rapist is caught, tried and convicted. In my opinion, that is evil. Only a small fraction of the total number of rapes reach that stage, unfortunately, and if you recognize the fact that rape victims need to have access to abortions, then you need to cover them all.

I'm pinging Elsie to this post, because I am certain that's not what he meant. Many pro-lifers believe that we should allow a rape and incest loophole so we can reduce the number of abortions, but only if there's a police report. I'm pretty sure that's what he meant.

But it isn't always possible. I don't think you or I can understand how traumatic such an event is.

I'm pretty sure you don't know what it's like to have your arm ripped off, but you're willing to visit it on another person because of the way they were conceived.

What other traumatic experiences are you willing to justify killing with? If a woman is raped by a family member, can she kill all the male family members who resemble him? How about if she's raped at work, and a coworker comes to rescue her--can she kill him because he reminds her of the event? Would it be OK if she just had him fired? If a husband cheats on a wife, can she kill the other woman so she doesn't have to worry about running into her at the grocery store? Can she kill the husband because he reminds her of this traumatic experience? If the wife cheats and she gets pregnant with the other man's child, can the husband whack the child so he's not reminded of this horrible betrayal?

There are a lot of bad experiences I've never had. I can't think of one that a small child should die for.

[linda_22003]

Of course, the negative side is that we might have to take the baby.... my first step would be to rename her. Any little girl christened "Dannielynn" is destined for the pole, unless steps are taken fast.

[Registered]

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1789184/posts?page=364#364

[Mr. Silverback]

That's up to the states to determine.

Oh, really? Is it up to the states to decide if the law of gravity exists, too? A fetus is a life that arises from human reproduction and if left alone will become a little boy or girl. To say that it is not a person is on the order of saying that thunder is the sound of God bowling.

But, OK, let's go with your legal angle. The state where you live decides that bipeds who have screen names beginning with the letter L are not humans and therefore have no protection under the 14th Amendment. They issue permits allowing people to hunt them and get a $500 bounty. You'd be OK with that, it would be perfectly legal?

[Mr. Silverback]

I've been trying for years to sell my wife on Elizabeth Ross or Abigail Adams as names for girls, but have made no headway. Feel free to use them if you get custody. :-)