Posted on 02/20/2007 1:39:19 AM PST by neverdem
This is a keeper. Thanks for posting.
About 160 million people were murdered in the 20th century by their governments. The US was responsible, even at second hand, for very few of these deaths. About 40 million died in wars.
http://www.mega.nu/ampp/rummel/20th.htm
L
It sure is.
He is, BTW, a strong libertarian, not because he originally leaned that way, but because research convinced him that giving leaders power leads directly to their killing people. The answer is to limit governmental power, not to try to put "better people" in control of that power.
He also supports the war in Iraq.
Got any figures for the Congo, when it was the personal property of Belgium's King Leopold II (1885-1909?). A few years ago, I heard that called the first genocide of the twentieth century.
I think Rummel figures about 10M for the Congo. Truly appalling story, especially as it was perpetrated simply to line the pockets of one man.
That's pretty much how it happened to me and I have Professor Rummel to thank, at least in part, for it.
The answer is to limit governmental power, not to try to put "better people" in control of that power
Exactly. Power corrupts. It's inherint in the nature of power. There's no getting around it. Absolute power kills absolutely as well.
He also supports the war in Iraq.
As do I and for largely the same reasons. The days of standing idly by while megalomaniacs slaughter millions have got to be over. In the early 20th Century we could afford to ignore it as long as it was confined to the 'other side' of the world.
In the later 20th Century we really couldn't do much about it without risking millions of our own citizens lives.
Now we're finally in a position to put a stop to at least a few of the worst of the murderous tyrants infesting the planet and we would be morally remiss if we didn't do what we can, when we can, where we can to stop it.
L
"Got any figures for the Congo, when it was the personal property of Belgium's King Leopold II (1885-1909?). A few years ago, I heard that called the first genocide of the twentieth century."
Nope, I was just following Shermans link
From Rummel's website:
"Putting together all the subtotals (lines 333 to 350), in this century the United States probably murdered about 583,000 people (line 350), conceivable even as many as 1,641,000 all told. Virtually all of these were foreigners killed during foreign wars. Domestically, throughout this century the American Federal or state governments were responsible for the murder of about 1 out of every 1,111,000 Americans per year."
His definitions of "murder," especially during wartime, are at the very least debatable. He includes most civilians killed during bombing of Germany and Japan, for instance.
I agree with you, but I doubt most Americans do.
The outcome of the Iraq invasion probably means we are going to be "morally remiss" for a very long time.
And they largely did it with the American left at the least standing idly by and at the worst cheering on the thugs who did it.
L
Rummel's website again:
"Having just read Adam Hochschild's King Leopold's Ghost: A Story of Greed, Terror, and Heroism in Colonial Africa, and followed up on its reviews and what I could find about the Congo Free State on the internet (such as this website). I'm aghast at the democide I missed. It is probably over many millions, possibly 10 million murdered or more from 1885 when The Berlin Conference formally recognized the Congo Free State (now the Democratic Republic of the Congo-formerly Zaire) to 1908 when Belgium took it over as a colony. The Congo Free State was the private land, not a colony, of King Leopold II of Belgium to do with whatever he wanted."
bump for later read
Rummel doesn't classify all civilian deaths during wartime as murder, only those resulting from attacks intentionally targeting civilians, as many of the bombing runs on Germany and Japan actually did.
You can argue about whether we were justified in doing so, about whether they had it coming, and about whether the practice shortened the war, thus saving lives in the long run.
It isn't possible to argue that we didn't do it.
I didn't mean to give the impression that I was doing so.
It was a different time with different weapons which required different tactics. Doing so today would most likely bring an entirely justified charge of War Crimes against whatever commander ordered such attacks.
But I can say that I largely whole heartedly agree with the good Professor Rummels conclusions. And I thank you for the thread as I hadn't heard of the Congo Genocide before.
I learned something new and for that I am in your debt.
L
Thank you and agreed.
BTTT
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