Posted on 02/19/2007 4:52:58 PM PST by sevenbak
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MITT ROMNEY, GOP PRESIDENTIAL HOPEFUL: I think in my view, the people of America want a person of faith to lead the country. They can look at my wife and me and my family, they can see that our faith has made us better people, better Americans, and we share the values of the other citizens of this great land.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNS: That was former Massachusetts Republican Governor responding to a question about media focus on his religion. Romney said this week he's running for president, but on the day of his announcement, he woke up to see this headline on the front page of USA Today: "Will Mormon faith hurt bid for White House?"
Jim, let's pretend that's a question asked of you...Click on link for full article.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,252784,00.html
(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...
If it comes down between Osama and Romney I'll vote Romney...
You may understand the concept, but apparently Enosh did not. I tried to explain it to him.
What you are trying to disguise is the idea that man can progress to become a god of his own world just as Jesus is god of this world. Someday even the spirit children of your own creation may become a god of his own world. . . . Logophile, I have already posted links. . . .
I was not trying to disguise anything. I was responding to a particular post by Enosh. I was not commenting on the links you posted.
Just be truthful, God will work it out, right?
CC, I have always been truthful with you. The problem is that you are always trying to start a fight with any LDS poster who will take the bait.
>>I think in my view, the people of America want a person of faith <<
No.
e.g. Not muslim.
"person of faith" is a useless term - utterly and completely. It communicates NOTHING.
>>Why So Much Media Focus on Mitt Romney's Mormon Faith?<<
And in a previous election, "Why So Much Media Focus on John Kerry's Military Record?"
I think you are quite truthful. Of all the LDS posters on FR, I actually respect you more than any (well, on second though I respect Utah Girl as much). Obviously the feeling is not mutual.
The problem with leaving mormonism, and being vocal about it, is you tend to be seen as a person who is either wrapped up in something sinful, or a bitter hag (as I've also been called.) AND really, this is a problem within the Church with females that speak up, we are seen in a very negative light. There isn't room in Mormonism for questions or disagreement.
I tend to get bristles when I'm attacked. I let my pride take over and I get a bit too agressive at times. You are right to remind me of that particular shortcoming of mine.
But my actions have no bearing on whether or not the claims of the Church are true. If I am telling truth, it shouldn't be seen as an attack. You may wish to correct me if you think my understanding is different than yours, but my conclusions are evey bit as valid as yours, and I have every bit as much right to my experiences and beliefs as you do.
Well, I cannot imagine how the word of God came to idols.
Nor can I see why Jesus would defend himself against a charge of blasphemy by citing Psalm 82 if it refers to false gods or idols.
But don't take my word for it; read Psalm 82 yourself:
PSALM 821 God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.
2 How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah.
3 Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy.
4 Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked.
5 They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course.
6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
7 But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.
8 Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations.
Now, would idols be called "children of the most High?" Or can idols "die like men"? I don't think so, but you are free to disagree.
Here is an answer from someone much more knowledgeable than I, Dr. James White.....
God takes His stand in His own congregation; He judges in the midst of the rulers. How long will you judge unjustly and show partiality to the wicked? Vindicate the weak and fatherless; do justice to the afflicted and destitute. Rescue the weak and needy; deliver them out of the hand of the wicked. They do not know nor do they understand; they walk about in darkness; all the foundations of the earth are shaken. I said, "You are gods, and all of you are sons of the Most High." (Psalm 82:1-6)
Here we have the key to the passage, for this is a psalm of judgment against the rulers of Israel. God takes his stand in His own congregation, that being His own people, Israel. He judges in the midst of the "rulers." The Hebrew term here is "elohim," which could be translated "gods." The NASB however, recognizes that the context indicates who is being discussed, for the next verse reads, "How long will you judge unjustly and show partiality to the wicked." Who judges unjustly and shows partiality? Human judges, of course, human rulers amongst the people. Hence, the NASB rendering of "elohim" as "rulers." It is important to recognize the use of the term elohim in verse 1, for the very same term appears in verse 6, and is what lies behind Jesus' citation in John 10:34. Before moving on in the text, it should be noted that even at this point recognizing that this passage is talking about unjust human rulers removes this passage from the realm of possible passages to cite in support of a plurality of gods, and certainly, Jesus was not, by citing this passage, calling His accusers true divine beings.
When we get to verse six, we find that God has placed the judges of Israel in a position of being "gods" amongst the people. They were entrusted with the application of God's law. God calls them to vindicate the weak and fatherless and to do justice to the afflicted and destitute (v. 3). This is their task, their duty. But they are failing that duty. They are not acting as proper, godly judges. Verse six, then, begins the pronouncement of judgment. Jesus only cites the beginning of the judgment-which was enough to make His point. But since many today do not immediately know the context the way the Jews did, we need to point it out. The rest of the phrase Jesus quotes is this: "Nevertheless you will die like men and fall like any one of the princes." Such is hardly the terminology one would use of divine and exalted beings! And this explains the use of the present tense verb "You are gods" in John 10:34. Jesus is saying His accusers are, right then, the judges condemned in Psalm 82. And what kind of judges were they? Unrighteous judges, who were judging unjustly. Jesus was calling His accusers false judges, and they well knew it.
http://www.aomin.org/Psalm82.html
I have only been a Christian for about five years. I have studied intensely but this discussion is beyond much of my understanding.
Thank you for the kind words. Be assured that I hold no personal animus toward you, even when we disagree on certain issues. (And I also respect Utah Girl very much.)
The problem with leaving mormonism, and being vocal about it, is you tend to be seen as a person who is either wrapped up in something sinful, or a bitter hag (as I've also been called.) AND really, this is a problem within the Church with females that speak up, we are seen in a very negative light. There isn't room in Mormonism for questions or disagreement.
It is regrettable that anyone would call you names. Unfortunately, some of us forget the Golden Rule and the virtue of charity.
I tend to get bristles when I'm attacked. I let my pride take over and I get a bit too agressive at times. You are right to remind me of that particular shortcoming of mine.
Alas, we all have the tendency toward pride. You are not the only one.
But my actions have no bearing on whether or not the claims of the Church are true. If I am telling truth, it shouldn't be seen as an attack. You may wish to correct me if you think my understanding is different than yours, but my conclusions are evey bit as valid as yours, and I have every bit as much right to my experiences and beliefs as you do.
As I said to you on another thread, long ago, you have to do what you think is right. Each of us will answer to God for our thoughts, our words, and our actions. If you say that God has called you to leave the LDS Church and follow another path, then I am not about to disagree with you.
As for me, I will continue to do what I think God wants me to do.
Thank you, Logophile.
Harry Reid is a MINO (Mormon in Name Only). Romney is for real.
I'm a Mormon. Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior and soon-coming king. Jesus Christ is the head of our Church, hence the title of our church - the Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter Day Saints. Furthmore, Jesus died for my sins; He's my personal Savior. Heavenly Father sent His Son, Jesus Christ, to atone for my sins. If that doesn't make me a Christian, I give up. It's sad, all the Mormon bashing that sometimes goes on here.
Jesus Christ is my Savior. The Mormon missionaries give up two years of their lives to spread the Gospel of Jesus Christ. During these two years, they do not watch TV, go to movies, read newspapers, date or get involved in worldly pursuits; instead they dedicate themselves to serving and loving others. They will help you move; they will mow your lawn; they will NOT bother you. I do not understand why conservative Christians hate us so much. It's interesting.
The Articles of Faith (LDS Church):
1. We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.
2. We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam's transgression.
3. We believe that through the atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.
4. We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.
5. We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.
6. We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth.
7. We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.
8. We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.
9. We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.
10. We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.
11. We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.
12. We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.
13. We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul--We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.
-Joseph Smith
Please do not ridicule my faith. Thank you.
Geeee, it couldn't be because Omama's middle name is Hussain? Could it???
Gotta slime any religion other than that espoused by the black urban vote, doncha know!
The black pandering over the next year is going to be a travisty to see happen!
"What I asked was how did the greek word "jesus christ" become written down in a language that was foreign to the Hebrews on this continent, who were writing in a language called Egyptian."
That line of reasoning is totally a straw-man argument and you know it. If we follow this logic, you would have to criticize the use of "English" words because none of the writers of the Book of Mormon knew "English". If one is translating to English then any word in the commonly understood English at that time is legitimate use of translation.
Come on, colorcountry, I am disappointed, you got better stuff than this right?
The Articles of Faith (LDS Church):
1. We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.
2. We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam's transgression.
3. We believe that through the atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.
4. We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.
5. We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.
6. We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth.
7. We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.
8. We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.
9. We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.
10. We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.
11. We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.
12. We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.
13. We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul--We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.
-Joseph Smith
Please do not ridicule my faith. Thank you.
You may feel that I ridicule your faith, but what I posted in the post that you replied to was a direct quotation from the lds.org website.
Did you see that as ridicule? Because frankly my only words in that post were, "Or there is this one:"....
The rest of the words were issued by your church.
If that's the case then why doesn't Psalms or Isaiah spell out the name J-e-s-u-s C-h-r-i-s-t in its translation?? The answer is because the translators of the Bible took special care in not imposing their own thoughts upon the original writers. An accurate translator will convey the meaning of the word in context.
But we all know that Joseph Smith could not do a literal TRANSLATION of egyptian. In fact, we have proof in the Book of Abraham, and the Anthon manuscript, now don't we?
Come on nowandlater....ya gotta use your brain. That's why God gave it to you...You know, "the glory of God is intellegence?" The ONLY reason I brought it up was because sevenbak did. Frankly I think it is a little too deep for the FR reading public. But if you want to maintain the discussion, I could start a thread over in the Religion section. Would you like to join me?
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