Posted on 02/19/2007 9:33:33 AM PST by pissant
Hillary Rodham Clinton this week told a group of gay contributors to her campaign that the "don't ask, don't tell" policy, intended to make it easier for homosexuals to serve in the military, had been a failure, her aides said Wednesday.
The first lady, a candidate for the U.S. Senate from New York, said that if elected she would work to revise what was one of the first programs put in place under President Clinton.
Hillary Clinton, speaking Tuesday night at a fund-raiser in Manhattan, said gays and lesbians should be allowed to serve openly in the military, according to participants.
Acknowledging that it was politically unrealistic to expect Congress to approve such legislation now, she said the Pentagon should take steps to reduce the instances of gays being discharged from the military.
Hillary Clinton's remarks, made at a private appearance organized by gay supporters that raised about $100,000 for her campaign, were related by people who attended and confirmed by her office in a written statement Wednesday evening.
"Gays and lesbians already serve with distinction in our nation's armed forces and should not face discrimination," Hillary Clinton said in the statement. "Fitness to serve should be based on an individual's conduct, not their sexual orientation."
The statement puts Hillary Clinton, once again, at odds with a policy implemented by her husband's administration that her aides believe could cause her problems for her as a candidate in New York. But it puts her in line with the views of MAYOR RUDOLF GIULIANI, her likely Republican opponent, who aides say also supports allowing gays to serve in the military and has been critical of the "don't ask, don't tell" initiative.
Hillary Clinton's comments marked the first time she had publicly discussed her views about one of the more difficult episodes of Clinton's first term in office, according to Jeff Soref, the co- chairman of the Empire State Pride Agenda, a gay rights group, and an organizer of the fund-raiser.
The fight over President Clinton's attempt to lift the ban on homosexuals in the military -- an attempt to fulfill a pledge he made as a presidential candidate in 1992 -- dominated his first months in office, raising questions about the new president's competence and ideology, among both supporters and opponents of the ban.
President Clinton eventually abandoned an executive order, instead agreeing to legislation that permitted gays and lesbians to serve in the military providing they did not disclose or act upon their sexuality, and prohibiting the military from initiating unfounded inquiries about homosexuality. That approach ended up angering many of the people whom the president had set out to please in the first place.
Hillary Clinton, responding to a question posed at the fund- raiser held at the studio of the artist Ross Bleckne, voiced her displeasure with the policy in unequivocal terms, according to participants.
There were murmurs of approval and soft applause as she described "don't ask, don't tell" as a failure, taking note of the fact that there had been an increase in the number of gays expelled from the military since the policy was put in force.
Gay groups say that since the policy was put into effect, the number of such discharges has doubled, to 312, last year.
"I think, quite frankly, she expressed a view that is an emerging consensus among people who are following this closely," said Richard Socarides, the former White House liaison to gay groups, who attended the fund-raiser.
Socarides said Hillary Clinton stated her views "directly and forcefully," adding: "I suspect that if you asked the president directly, he would say that this is an area that requires a lot of work also."
The fact that both Giuliani and Hillary Clinton have embraced the same position on an issue that so deeply split Congress in 1993 -- and caused political problems for the Democratic White House -- reflects the extent to which both of the Senate hopefuls view gay men and lesbians as a source of votes and contributions.
Both Hillary Clinton and Giuliani already have gone to some lengths to court support from gay voters, and Hillary Clinton's advisers said they were concerned that the mayor might do well among a group of voters that has historically been viewed as a reliable part of the Democratic base.
At the fund-raiser, Hillary Clinton also voiced support for domestic partnership measures that would allow gay partners to receive the same benefits as married couples.
On this, her position is similar to the one taken by Giuliani, who supported a domestic partnership law in 1997. The mayor frequently remarks that he signed the city's first domestic partnership legislation.
Remember that Ronald Reagan revamped several important positions during his transition from 'Rat union leader to GOP governor and then president.
Yes but is the strawman gay?
"That his is in flux and that's ok." Ronald Reagan, G-d Bless him, signed a bill in 1967, as Governor of CA, that virtually decriminalized abortion. Did his views evolve?
The problem right now is that the ideologues have glommed onto Giuliani as representative of all things RINO. He was appointed by Pres Reagan to 2 different positions in his admin. He isn't the RINO boogeyman that you guys are trying so desperately to portray.
I served in the military...there were a couple of guys in my platoon that we had our suspicions about. But they were good guys that did their job...they didn't ask us and we didn't ask them. What the hell difference did it make to me if the person that saved my life was straight or homosexual?
The argument is stupid.
"so I guess you also have a major problem with VP Cheney who received 5 deferments."
Rudy got 5 deferments as well. Seven years worth. What were Cheney's reasons?
Yes he did, all about 20 years before he ran for the Presidency, unlike Rudy McRomney who have been flopping around like a trout.
The point is that criticizing someone for seeking deferments is a weak attempt to smear them.
I've read some of that before. I won't hammer him for that, he's got plenty of other baggage.
No reason to think that Giuliani would be having any sexual excapades - heterosexual or homosexual - in the WH should he get there. Nor would he be involved in a pattern of criminal and morally decadent behavior as Clinton was.
Really? I didn't know that. (obligatory picture here) LOL! ;-)
6 years is okay on condition that, 5 years is a no-no, 9 years is acceptable...
I looked it up. It's in Wikipedia under the heading, "Arbitrary Judgements...Sub-Title 1 (i) which says......
Never mind...the point is made...clutch at any straw to destroy your opponent, no matter how short the straw.
You dumb, intolerant, immature, single-issue, perfectionist socons! Don't you realize that we HAVE to nominate Rudy because only he can draw enough gay votes from Hillary to put CA, NY, & NJ in play? The Religious Right will just have to open wide and swallow Rudy! /sarc
"Don't ask, don't tell" is why I am now a conservative first, Republican second. My very first thought was, literally, "You don't [mess] with the military."
Show me that Rudy has changed his mind on Abortion, gays in the miltary, the 2nd Amendment (he already completely FUBAR'd that one), then we'll talk.
Why last week he was chastizing Algore for not going after the perpetrators of global warming. He might change his tune next week, so hold on to your hat.
"The point is that criticizing someone for seeking deferments is a weak attempt to smear them."
Maybe so, but I think it points out that contrary to the rhetoric posted regularly here, he has ZERO military experience. He has no national security experience. Zero, zip nada. He would be lucky to get a security clearance.
Did he ever sit in a meeting where they discussed and decided matters about Iraq, Iran, Korea, Cuba, etc? I don't think so. The idea that he is strong on the WOT is a fallacy.
It should also be noted that before Bill Clinton made it an issue, if you were detected as being homosexual in the military, usually for being caught committing a homosexual act, you would be promptly discharged and no hard feelings.
However, after his brilliant "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy was put into place, being a homosexual in the military might be punishable by DEATH. By making an issue of it, Bill Clinton was personally responsible for the deaths of dozens or more homosexuals.
What those P.C. idiots didn't realize is that the military not only has people in it who are trained killers, but that many of them are not homophobic, they are "homopsychotic".
This in no way makes them bad soldiers, but it means that if you flaunt homosexuality in their face, they may be inclined to kill you.
Even the rumor that an individual *might* be a homosexual could now possibly result in their being hunted down by some soldier, sailor, airman or Marine who has no idea if it is true or not, just that he wants to kill a homosexual.
So each and every homosexual should thank Bill Clinton for not just holding them up for scrutiny, of making an issue of them for his political benefit, but for endangering their very lives.
Because of him, there are far fewer homosexuals in the military, and those that are must stay very deep in the closet, or else.
Do you have any evidence that your statement reflects his current position?
Personally, I think the policy should be: "Do ask, do tell, do dishonorably discharge." The way it was before the Clinton's got into office.
As a practical matter, that "change" was like a lot of Clinton's changes -- a lot of symbolism with very little substance. I haven't seen any evidence that the change resulted in the overrunning of our armed forces w/ gays. I suspect that prior to BJ Clinton's changes asking the question just meant gay people lied to get by, but I'm not an authority on the subject nor am I as obsessed with gay people as some others appear to be.
EWWW bad visual-you should have to go to the corner for that!
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