Posted on 02/16/2007 4:56:04 AM PST by Spiff
Former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani, who said Wednesday night he is making a bid for the White House, will not be America’s 44th president because he supports abortion rights and gay rights and has been married three times.
At least so says Richard Land, president of the Southern Baptist Convention’s Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission.
Land is considered an influential evangelical leader, and he has a new book, due out next month, entitled The Divided States of America? What Liberals and Conservatives Are Missing in the God-and-Country Shouting Match — with a foreword written by Sen. Joe Lieberman (D-Conn).
Land told The Hill in an interview this week that as it stands now, the top tier of Republican presidential hopefuls lacks a candidate social conservatives can be fully comfortable voting for.
Beginning with Giuliani, Land said “the vast majority” of social conservative voters will not vote for the former mayor even if he gets the nomination and faces off against Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-N.Y.).
“If he wins, he’ll do so without social conservatives,” Land said.
While Giuliani’s moderate to liberal stances on social issues are beginning to be discussed more and more in conservative circles, Land said the mayor’s annulment, divorce and subsequent third marriage will seal the deal against hizzoner for social conservatives.
“It’s got to surface at some point,” Land said. “There are too many social conservatives talking about it, and it applies to [Newt] Gingrich, too.”
Land talks often about the weight social conservatives carry within the Republican Party, citing exit polling and warning GOP candidates that they can “no more win without conservative voters than a Democrat can without overwhelming support from blacks.”
“That’s the reality of politics in the early 21st century,” he said.
Land looked at the current field of Republican candidates and offered his appraisal — not endorsement — of those he views to be in contention.
Former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney has to “convince” social conservatives his conversions on issues such as abortion and gay rights are authentic rather than politically motivated, Land said, adding that many conservatives will likely give Romney the benefit of the doubt on his changed abortion position.
“Conservatives would see that as ‘He’s seen the light,’” Land said. “They would see it as less of a flip-flop than as a journey.”
Of Romney’s Mormon religion, Land said it’s not a “deal-killer.”
Land said he has encouraged the former governor to reach out to social conservatives about his religion and appeal to “the American people’s sense of fair play,” much as President Kennedy addressed his Catholicism in front of the Greater Houston Ministerial Association in 1960.
As for oft-perceived Republican frontrunner Sen. John McCain, Land paused, then said the Arizona senator’s strengths with independent voters are what is hurting him with socially conservative voters.
McCain’s “maverick” streak may be a winning personality trait for reporters and independents, but social conservatives consider it to be a sign of unpredictability.
“They don’t like being surprised,” Land said.
Though Land doesn’t question McCain’s consistency on abortion issues, he said McCain’s involvement in the “Gang of 14” — the bipartisan Senate group that prevented the “nuclear” option on judicial nominees — and his refusal to support anti-gay marriage proposals severely hurts his chances with traditional-values voters.
In the end, Land said, social conservatives are concerned about the kind of judges a President McCain would nominate.
“Voting pro-life is not enough,” Land said. “He has got to express himself in other venues.”
Add that to the McCain-Feingold campaign-finance reform law, legislation that sparked an outcry in religious organizations, and McCain, despite a conservative record and his continued, loyal backing of President Bush, does not come in as a favorite of the religious right.
But Land said the second tier of candidates offers voters of his ilk two contenders so-called values voters could get behind — Sen. Sam Brownback (R-Kan.) and former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee (R).
Both men are considered long-shots at this early stage of the game, but Land said impressive fundraising or gains in the polls could open a door to either candidate through which social conservatives might run.
“They don’t have to convince other social conservatives they’re one of them,” Land said. “They just have to convince other social conservatives they can win.”
Land called Huckabee a “Republican Bill Clinton,” praising the longtime governor’s charisma and affability with voters.
“I think he could catch fire,” Land said.
As it stands today, probably a good 10 months away from the first votes, Land said Romney and McCain “get the first chance to close the deal,” but concedes with those two as the frontrunners, social conservatives are left without a candidate who makes them 100 percent comfortable.
“That’s why if I were a Brownback supporter or a Romney supporter, I wouldn’t be all that discouraged,” he said.
As for Democrats, Land challenges the assumption held by many that Clinton will be the Democratic nominee, giving her “50-50” chances.
He said as he talks to conservative voters, he hears the word “calculating” used most often to describe the former first lady and cites “Clinton-Bush” fatigue as one of the factors working against her.
“When people talk to me about her, their facial expressions change,” he said.
Republicans Can't Win Without Christian Conservatives (this means you, Rudy)
SOURCE: http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:QS6fK2c8AP0J:pewforum.org/events/index.php%3FEventID%3D115
Americans who regularly attend worship services and hold traditional Christian religious views increasingly vote Republican, while those who are less connected to religious institutions and more secular in their outlook tend to vote Democratic, according to a major study by the Pew Forum.
Some of the conclusions of this report were already evident in 2004 exit polling data. For example, voters who attend church more than once a week (16 percent of all voters) chose Bush over Kerry by a margin of 64 – 35 percent.
Likewise, those who attend Christian denominational Churches on a weekly basis (26 percent of voters) supported the President by a 58 – 41 percent margin. Also very telling, those who never attend Church (15 percent of voters) overwhelmingly supported Kerry 62 – 36 percent.
The study further found that traditionalist elements within each religion tended to vote Republican, while modernist groups within the religions trended towards the Democrats. A multiple regression analysis of exit poll and public opinion survey data from 2000 and 2004 enabled the Pew Research Center to assign a relative weight to various demographic markers.
Interestingly, church attendance was tied with race as the most significant factor. But even that number is deceiving; in that race is only an important factor due to the high level of support the Democrats receive from black voters.
These trends represent a major shift over the past forty-five years. White Christian Evangelicals in 1960 favored Democrats by a two-to-one margin; now they are Republican by a 56 – 27 percent margin. Seventy-eight percent of them voted for President Bush in 2004.
In 1960, 71 percent of Catholics were Democrats and now Democrats have only a slight edge among Catholics (44 – 41 percent) and Catholics voted for President Bush (52 – 47 percent) in 2004. These trends have also brought an increased acceptance of religion in the public square.
While Americans do tend to favor the separation of church and state, 70 percent of voters want their President to have strong Christian religious beliefs. Likewise, the study reveals that 52 percent of Americans believe that Christian churches should express political views. Surprisingly, support for political involvement of churches is strongest among younger voters age 18 to 29 (59 percent).
There are many influential evangelical leaders who you've never heard about. You only hear about the ones who issue regular press releases, or stir controversy. Trust the fact that Southern Baptists know who Land is. Why don't you check and see how many Baptists are influenced by the man?
Do you realize that nearly every Sunday, pastors across the country give sermons that remind Christians about their position on abortion, partial birth abortion, assisted suicide, stem cell research. etc.? They are entitled to speak out on those issues, as they are part of their faith. It can even be political, reminding their members that they should vote for candidates who represent their values. They are not allowed to endorse candidates by name, but they know how to get the message across effectively.
Choosing between two liberals is not a wise vote, either.
Not surprisingly, you've totally missed the point. The disconnect lies in the fact that this bonehead won't support a Giuliani, but will take an endorsement from Liberman, a guy who he must certainly view as far more liberal than Giuliani. It's as if he got an endorsement from Rudy himself!
Well, I guess the devil ... sorry ... is in the definition of liberal.
You got that right. "Moderate Rudy" lately discovered he needs prolifers to make a showing, so he'll be having these "Come to Jesus" moments---temporary blackouts that he will conveniently discard should he, by some fluke, get anywhere near our WH.
Rudy is joined at the hip to NARAL, Planned Parenthood and the rest of the abortion-on-demand-with-the-govt-picking-up-the-tab crowd. No way will they allow Rudy to move anywhere but forward to expand abortion to unknown dimensions. Partial birth abortion? If Rudy is elected, you ain't seen nuttin' yet.
Giuliani said just last week "I'm against abortion but I must uphold Roe v. Wade." This is the classic pro-abortion political statement. NARAL, Planned Parenthood and the rest of the abortion savages clapped their hands with glee knowing that Rudy is STILL on their side, and has been from the very beginning.
From the FEC database: 04/24/1999 Donations
NEW YORK STATE NARAL INC WOMEN'S HEALTH PAC
NARAL donated exclusively to Democrat candidates with one exception----Rudy Giuliani.
Giuliani accepted $1,000 from NARAL in 1999.
NARAL gave $250 to Hillary Rodham Clinton.
NARAL gave $1000---4 times as much-----to pro-abortion Giuliani.
Clearly, NARAL trusted Rudy's pro-abortion credentials, and Rudy's willingness to advance NARAL's radical abortion-on-demand agenda, even more than NARAL trusted Hillary.
Rudy was the honored guest speaker and made The Opening Remarks to the N.A.R.A.L. "Champions of Choice" Luncheon few years back.
In a CNN interview, Giuliani indicated he does not support even a modest ban on the gruesome partial-birth abortion procedure saying, "No, I have not supported that, and I don't see my position on that changing." Giuliani also indicated he would have upheld President Clinton's veto of the partial-birth abortion ban.
Maybe Mayor Rudy offered women "other options" to abortion, but Rudy told Phil Donahue he'd give his daughter the money for an abortion (to get rid of his own grandchild).
Keep in mind that sometimes you lose a battle in order to regroup to win the war.
If Rudy is the future of the GOP, I don't want to be a part of it. I'm thinking long term.
And don't lecture me about judges. With his position on social issues, guns, etc., there's no way he's going to nominate judges that I like.
The point is this -
This guy represents the thinking of a lot of Christians....you can disagree as to his credentials and who fowarded his book....big deal.
No its not as though he got a endorsement from Rudy....it doesn't matter....what matters is that he's right.
There are 20 to 40 million of us born-again evengelical christians in America, depending on who's counting, and we are a lot more politically savy than we were 20 years ago.
On which planet?
So you say. Fine. Go ahead and try and push that poll with the # of people who will vote for Rudy above 40%. Good luck with that. You say you are a conservative with a consicence. Your willingness to go out and cast a vote for a baby killing, pro-gay, gun grabbing, environmentalist who views California politics as mainstream robs you of your right to claim such a title.
Pay attention here folks.
After all, the Southern Baptist boycott shut down Disney...
And they want a reply of the same failed strategy now, but instead of a moderate they're putting up an outright liberal candidate. It is a strategy doomed to failure.
If Rudy gets the nomination and the only other options are third party or democrat...third party votea will give it to the democrat. Is there a democrat who is pro life? What kind of supreme court judges witll the democrat appoint?
If there could ever be a viable third party...true conservatives...that would be a God send.
Well you see, I had a Rudy supporter explain all of that to me. You see, it goes this way - if the GOP loses a conservative vote - they just lose one vote. If they gain a dumbocrat vote - it's like TWO votes, because it means Hillary LOSES a vote. Apparently, that's their whole strategy.
The GOP is a train wreck in the making - even though Rudy may be polling 30some percent in the polls - the latest FOX poll showed that 50some percent of Republicans want to see a new name out there. Most of us on this forum can see this train is heading for disaster. We need to switch tracks, before it's too late. Rudy is a loser for us.
You are absolutely correct. This is why we have primaries. We duke it out there but when it's over, we pledge to defeat the RATS. That is the only way we will ever advance.
If Rudy is the nominee, I may be forced to stay home for the first time ever. There is no difference in Rudy and Mr. Clinton .
Pray for a godly conservative that we can all support to rise up.
Nothing could make me vote for Rudy - nothing.
It would also apply to Ronald Reagan. Does Land believe Reagan should never have been President because he was divorced and remarried? Does Land want us to believe that "social conservatives" use divorce at a litmus test in 2008 when they obviously did not in 1980?
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